| Posted: Mon Apr 12th, 2010 02:16 pm |
|
1st Post |
annereport
Member
back to top
|
More of the same from Say What. Listen to Say What and get more of the same from the RCSC. Hold onto your wallets!
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 12th, 2010 02:28 am |
|
2nd Post |
Say What
Member
| Joined: | Sat Mar 14th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 610 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
More spam from self-promoting ARS.
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 10th, 2010 12:10 pm |
|
3rd Post |
annereport
Member
back to top
|
The board makes rules and the members complain. If they don't listen, the members can override board decisions through petitioning and then a membership vote.
SCFR is the only organization that has stepped up to the plate to circulate petitions. It's not an easy task and it costs money.
If you appreciate what we are attempting, then donate.
http://www.annereport.com/donate.html
If not, don't. But, don't complain to us when the RCSC targets you, your club, and your wallet. Your apathy is to blame, not us.
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 10th, 2010 05:50 am |
|
4th Post |
suncityjoe
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 18th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 55 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
annereport wrote: "The Golf Course Covenants require the property to be a golf course; also, tax breaks for golf courses that change to other uses require back payment to the county." Didn't realize that, but that doesn't seem to disallow redesigning a golf course into a 9 holer multi-use combo, does it? If it were redesigned as just a chip and putt course with judiciously placed spacing, it would be safe for joggers, etc. Other housing developments route walking areas around and through even regular courses, but of course they were designed with the extra spacing to make multiple uses compatible, but it still seems we might be able to have the option I'm suggesting. Yes, as you state, "The golf courses create revenue. Parks do not. Yet, parks have the same maintenance requirements, i.e., watering, weeding, mowing, etc." The multiple use proposal would bring in revenue and might require less maintenance as areas for walkers need not be manicured grass, but native plants.
You state, "The solution is to allow dog owners, bicyclists, joggers, etc., to use the golf courses when they are closed to golfers. " Yes, that is one possibility, and could be started immediately as long as walkers know they need to keep to the paths thereby limiting any extra wear on the turf itself. Agreed, that "Non-golfers subsidize the golf operations. They should be able to enjoy the beauty of the open spaces that make Sun City a great quality of life." But I don't think
"All it takes is joining the Sun City Formula Registry and joining us in our quest to override the rules the board makes without our permission." As far as I know, on the multiple use golf course suggestions and dog park possibilities, no one has approached the present board, so I think that should be tried and see what happens....
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 10th, 2010 02:52 am |
|
5th Post |
No Report Needed
Member
| Joined: | Fri Jan 29th, 2010 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 481 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
I could care less about keeping you quiet! Most intelligent Sun City residents see your group for what they are and represent. What you fail to understand is that the majority of S.C. Residents are very happy with what the RCSC is doing for our community. That goes way beyond the quality of ammenities and maintenance, but attempting to control American Water's attempt to drastically increase our water rates. What are you and you so-called registry doing for this effort? In one word, NOTHING!
I have been in this community since 1976 and believe the ammenities of Sun City are better than ever before and there is no one other to thank other than the Recreation Centers of Sun City and their staff.
Petition? One word-STUPID! I am not in any way a part of the RCSC but believe I speak for many, many residents that have no issue with the
functioning of RCSC Board management team.
We have had enough of you and your self promoting spam-like posts!
Last edited on Sat Apr 10th, 2010 02:57 am by No Report Needed
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 9th, 2010 12:56 pm |
|
6th Post |
annereport
Member
back to top
|
Say What, enough from you. We know where you stand. And it's not with us; it's with the RCSC board.
You have your opinion and we have ours. We will not keep quiet because of your insults. That tactic has worked for you in your past relationships, but it won't with us.
It would be better for you to just give your opinion instead of trying to discredit ours with derision.
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 8th, 2010 11:26 pm |
|
7th Post |
Say What
Member
| Joined: | Sat Mar 14th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 610 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Please, enough!
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 8th, 2010 11:24 pm |
|
8th Post |
annereport
Member
back to top
|
The Golf Course Covenants require the property to be a golf course; also, tax breaks for golf courses that change to other uses require back payment to the county.
The golf courses create revenue. Parks do not. Yet, parks have the same maintenance requirements, i.e., watering, weeding, mowing, etc.
The solution is to allow dog owners, bicyclists, joggers, etc., to use the golf courses when they are closed to golfers. Non-golfers subsidize the golf operations. They should be able to enjoy the beauty of the open spaces that make Sun City a great quality of life.
There is a person (we won't name names, BUT...), who complained because someone didn't pick up after their dog behind this person's property on the golf course and then this person made the rule to kick dogs off the golf courses. However, you can still find feces and urine on the courses from all manner of wildlife, i.e., coyotes, birds, bunnies, etc., not to mention the male golfers who douse the trees and bushes when it's convenient for them.
Get over the "unsanitary" angle which is unbelievably unrealistic and let the members enjoy the courses before they open. Summertime at sunrise. Glorious. Makes subsidizing the courses well worth it. It feeds the soul.
All it takes is joining the Sun City Formula Registry and joining us in our quest to override the rules the board makes without our permission.
Start with the current petition drive: remove the board's power to recall board members or write bylaws without membership ratification.
http://www.annereport.com/petition.html
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 8th, 2010 11:21 pm |
|
9th Post |
Say What
Member
| Joined: | Sat Mar 14th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 610 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Do you expect the RCSC to pay for upkeep and maintenance on the proposed park? The RCSC owns all of this property, recreation centers, golf courses, etc.
The property owners, single family homes and condos only own their individual lots. The difference with condo associations, is that they own a portion of the common area of their HOA. In some cases this a park like setting.
Last edited on Thu Apr 8th, 2010 11:25 pm by Say What
|
suncityjoe
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 18th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 55 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Discussions re: more green spaces, dog parks, etc. have brought up some interesting directions to explore. Someone suggested the changing of one golfcourse to a 9 holer and the other 9 holes be a park. I'd like to support that possibility, esp. since I can speak from experience that I came into the game of golf via a great little nine hole course as it was non-intimidating, felt relaxed and casual, and the price was right. I can see that as time goes on, I may come full circle and feel as my power decreases and I can't drive that ball with as much power, that I'd enjoy returning to a 9 hole course. I imagine others might feel similarly. Maybe less confident players would appreciate having a "gateway to full course golf" available. Seems to me, it could be a great niche course that way and might even be a money maker by providing something different in our community and possibly funneling people towards the other courses as their skill level increases, but if they never do, fine too if it gets them out and participating in a way not available to them now.
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 22nd, 2010 05:13 pm |
|
11th Post |
annereport
Member
back to top
|
The RCSC requires members to come into the intimidating board offices to fill in a scary records request form that compels you to state your "reasons" "in good faith" for wanting to see their tax returns.
Well, no more. We just posted the RCSC tax returns for 2008, 2007, and 2006 on The Anne Report.
http://www.annereport.com/new.html
Have you ever asked the board what the novice golf superintendent was being paid? It's there and more! Enjoy!!
Open records are fun!!Attachment: libertybell.png (Downloaded 63 times) Last edited on Tue Mar 23rd, 2010 12:17 pm by annereport
|
Say What
Member
| Joined: | Sat Mar 14th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 610 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
They have to do what they can to survive!
|
2JPs
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 24th, 2007 |
| Location: | Sun City |
| Posts: | 379 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
It seems we're continuing to lose the battle for more golf revenue. Have you seen the large ads from Palmbrook Golf Course?? A private golf course located within Sun City?? They are promoting $25 rounds of golf but no mention of having to be a member and possibly you have to buy a pack of 10 rounds to get this price. Still.....it just isn't right for them to undercut the golf fees charged to residents of Sun City at the RCSC courses. Do the private courses feel justified in discounting their prices because we are now open to the public? This has to be addressed.
Here's the post that started it all and it seems we've come full circle:
I really have no objection to taking 55+ aged non-residents money to help offset our golf budget costs. What I do object to is the small difference in what a resident pays compared to the proposed non-resident unlimited use fee. We do not need 8 premiere RCSC golf courses in Sun City and cannot even consider closing any of them. There are 2 privately owned "premiere" courses for those that can afford to play them. I would like to see a trial of one regulation course and one executive course be priced at an affordable level to see how much play is increased. It will cost $26 to play 18 holes after November 1st. Lawn bowling is free, bocce is free, tennis is free, pickleball is free, shooting pool is free, shuffleboard is free and you can bowl 3 leagues for the cost of one round of golf. Lower the winter cost of 18 holes to $20($11 for 9 holes) for residents and I think you will see the rounds skyrocket. The maintenance costs the same for 20 rounds a day or 45 rounds. Why wouldn't you opt for more resident players by reducing the rates? The prepaid unlimited play for residents should also be reduced. To celebrate the 50th Anniversary why not have a buy one unlimited play....get one 50% off for residents???? I don't understand if the $400,000 needed in 2010 is for improvements or is an amount that is needed for normal maintenance. I know that the outside play will just get steamrolled through at the board meeting on the 29th but it sure doesn't help the average Sun City resident that would like to be able to afford to play their home course once a week. 
|
annereport
Member
back to top
|
If we fail to attract golfers, we will have to pay for the golf courses. If you don't want to pay for them "whether you use them or not", then it is best to not move into Sun City in the first place. On that subject we agree with the RCSC board.
Where we part company with them is we place the poor performance of the golf operations on the superintendent who is the one in charge. Lack luster performance should require replacement.
Lower cost to homeowners for golfing will generate more participation. The courses are intended for the benefit of the homeowners, not the public. There is no incentive to buy our homes if the golf is available whether you do or not.Last edited on Thu Mar 4th, 2010 12:12 pm by annereport
|
jetcam
Member
back to top
|
The stats that you quoted, is that for AZ or for Sun City? Arizona beauty is beyond verbal description. The sunsets in Arizona are the most beautiful to be seen in the world, I know. Think of the number of courses versus the number of golfers, and math comes out askew.
|
ernied
Guest
| Joined: | |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
With more than 325 days of sunshine annually, the State of Arizona is an outdoor enthusiast`s dream, but for avid golfers, it`s a real paradise. Over 200 golf courses have helped make the Valley of the Sun the "Golf Capital of the World", as named by the National Golf Foundation. On many of the courses, the biggest challenge to making par may not be the challenging greens, desert canyons or difficult putts, but fighting the urge to stare at all the incredible scenery.
The average 18-hole daily fee golf course records 30,000 rounds per year, employs a total of 13 full-time people and brings in about $992,000 in total revenues.Attachment: Juggle_cheap_cs_20080625172105.jpg (Downloaded 95 times)
|
jetcam
Member
back to top
|
"Even though only about 20 percent of our residents play golf, those who do appreciate a quality experience." From the Pulte-Del Webb website.
To the folks that look for golf to be affordable, you can say you heard it here it first. "Affordable" is a matter of perspective, and finances, so keeping the cost of participating in this game will continue to go up, year after year. The costs will borne by all who live in Sun City as long as there is an inherent belief that golf comes before the need of the residents themselves. Golf is a dying game that has little interest from those that are retiring today. Statistics prove it at every level, every course, even the makers of golf equipment have lost a huge stock market share due to lack of people to purchase their wares.
Those that wish to continue to partake of this game should be made to bear the greater cost of maintaining the various paraphernalia and grounds. It appears that only about 20% of the population plays this game, why should the whole of the community have to pay for this habit? If I like to drink, should the RCSC subsidize my alcohol tab on the backs of residents? If the neighbor likes to smoke, should she receive a subsidy from RCSC to pay for her habit? I could go on, but I think I made the point.
To all of the folks that moved here because there were golf facilities, good for you. Per Anne's earlier post, "We need to market to golfers who are retiring and can afford to play" hope you folks have deep pockets, because that is where the costs will eventually end up, as it should be.
Last edited on Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 03:09 am by jetcam
|
Say What
Member
| Joined: | Sat Mar 14th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 610 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Golf and Tiger are yesterday!
|
SunCityWestBill
Member
| Joined: | Thu Oct 11th, 2007 |
| Location: | Tampa |
| Posts: | 794 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Anne, the "new" retirees are more interested in walking, bike riding, running. More active endeavors. These are activities they have pursued for the majority of their life and wish to continue. Look at the communtiies developing in Tennessee - they are not "golf" centered. Very few "new" retirement communities are.
|
Say What
Member
| Joined: | Sat Mar 14th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 610 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
And who are you to judge? You are a .........................!
|
annereport
Member
back to top
|
Attract golfing retirees. Great courses will do that. Sun City does not have any great courses, not one...
|
rfolland
Member
| Joined: | Wed Mar 25th, 2009 |
| Location: | SCW |
| Posts: | 357 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
The "Golfies" in the Sun Cities seem to be operating on the supposition that everybody is a potential golfer and that if you could only get the cost down low enough, everyone would flock to the courses. That's a bit of "pie in the sky." I tried golf about 40+ years ago and decided it wasn't worth the time and effort. My wife's interest is at the level where if you paid her to play, she still wouldn't.
|
jetcam
Member
back to top
|
Golf Declining as American Pastime
Jim Kass, the research director of the National Golf Foundation, an industry group, said the gradual but prolonged slump in golf has defied the adage, “Once a golfer, always a golfer.” About three million golfers quit playing each year, and slightly fewer than that have been picking it up. A two-year campaign by the foundation to bring new players into the game, he said, “hasn’t shown much in the way of results.”
Participation Down
Golf participation in the U.S. fell to 26 million in 2005 from 30 million in 2000, according to the most recent study conducted by the Florida-based National Golf Foundation. About 3 million golfers quit playing each year and several hundred of the 3,000 new golf courses built in the U.S. between 1990 and 2003 have closed, according to the NGF.
The emphasis is on teaching children, starting at age eight (8) to learn the game and its rules, so in forty seven years, we will have a new interest in golf in the area
|
rfolland
Member
| Joined: | Wed Mar 25th, 2009 |
| Location: | SCW |
| Posts: | 357 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
A while back, I made reference to a study done by the Del Webb people who are now a part of Pulte Homes. They were looking beyond the "Boomers" to the following generation and their preferences for a retirement community. The general result was that they wanted modern features in a smaller house, home offices as they will probably continue working, and were willing to sacrifice community amenities for overall cost. A large all-encompassing resort type facility just wasn't on their list. These folks are in the "post-retirement plan" work force and will go back to the "good old days" of retiring on what they themselves can put away provided the stock market doesn't wipe them out.
The original Del Webb "formula" fit the '60s generation quite well. The paradigm has shifted. That was then, this is now. The "Boomers" are quite different folks than their parents and have different ideas as to how things should be structured.
Last edited on Tue Mar 2nd, 2010 05:52 pm by rfolland
|
jetcam
Member
back to top
|
Obviously, Anne has a one track mindset about golf. I could go on-line and produce result after result that shows golf, as a sport, and as a game, is producing diminishing returns. There are a number of retirees within the community that have recently retired to the area, paid the PIF, and have zero interest in golf. Removing a person from their job, just because one person thinks they are doing a poor job, is delusional. If he were doing such a poor job, he would have been removed already for poor job performance. "We need to market to golfers who are retiring and can afford to play" is a rather lame view of the folks that are moving into the area. There seems to be a real missed point, and that is that there are plenty of other activities to draw people who want to live here other than golf. "Cow pasture pool" is not everybodies idea of a good time.
There is a glut of golf facilities in this area. Between the private and public courses, there are not enough people in the state to play all of the open land around here. Golf can stay affordable when affording the maintenance and upkeep becomes affordable. Keeping all of this open land watered, fed, plugged, seeded, mowed, and groomed all has a cost associated with it that has nothing to do with who is running the show.
Anne, you are still dreaming about when times had June Cleaver in her pearls, waiting at home for Ward to return from his golf game. Those days are gone for today's retirees. Very few of the boomers have even taken up the game of golf. There is little interest in playing golf by new retirees.
If golf is to be priced competitively, it needs to be available on courses that are being used continuously. That will never happen in this area. Not because of who is running the program, not because of who the maintenance workers are, but because there will NEVER be enough golfers in this area to pack the tee times to make these courses profitable at any level. As long as all of these courses remain open and maintained, the costs will always out strip the play, meaning golfers and non-golfers alike will continue to be levied costs that are unfair to all.
"We need to market to golfers who are retiring and can afford to play" There are plenty of folks retiring that can afford to play, they just choose to spend their money joining other clubs that require monies as well, such as the clay club, the ceramics club, the porcelain club, the lapidary club, etc. What I would like to see is marketing to a full time, year around base, that would allow all of us to have neighbors year around. As the population ages, there are folks in the community that can benefit from having others nearby just to be able to talk to, visit with, and have a peace of mind knowing that the car doors they heard were their neighbors and not someone trying to break into an unattended home.
Anne, I support your petitions and your recall drive, but it appears that you have a "wedge" stuck some where about golf!
|
annereport
Member
back to top
|
We need to attract golfers and bowlers into the community. The more golfers and bowlers the less the non-golfers and non-bowlers would have to pay to subsidize the amenities.
It is not just the salary of the inexperienced golf superintendent that's our objection; it's that his inexperience causes expenditures that can be prevented if we had someone with experience instead. His mistakes are magnified eight times since we have eight courses.
Inferior golf courses will not attract golfers to Sun City. Especially ones who have retired and have time to play. Those people will go elsewhere. The renovations made to the courses that remove the challenge will also not attract golfers who have retired with time on their hands.
The solution is an experienced superintendent instead of a novice. Nothing personal; only practical and logical solutions.
Golf is not down where the courses are well-maintained. In fact, people pay high prices to play them. Our courses do not measure up. The gutter eyesore is proof of that claim.Attachment: lwguttr.jpg (Downloaded 131 times) Last edited on Tue Mar 2nd, 2010 04:34 pm by annereport
|
Bill Pearson
Member
| Joined: | Fri Oct 13th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 686 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
So Annereport, how do you feel about jetcam's suggestion to close a couple of golf courses to deal with the diminishing number of golfers? And rather than just shouting fire John S and a bunch of his staff, the reality is golf play is down all over the country. The problem is bigger than a salary.
I thought many of your comments jetcam about the boomers club were on target. Again, the problem is that many of those boomers will be working and whether they will have time to play golf is all part and parcel of the the future of this community.
|
annereport
Member
back to top
|
The Sun City Formula Registry was formed to gather a constituency to hold the RCSC board accountable for their spending and assessing.
Our members attend meetings and then we alert those who can't attend when something happens that requires Member action. All of the quorums from last year were a result of our efforts.
We send out calls to action and if the members agree they show up. If they don't agree, they don't show up, which is fine, too. We don't expect agreement 100% percent of the time.
Our reports on our website "The Anne Report" http://www.annereport.com are a permanent record of our efforts.
We are set in principle that Del Webb set down.
See http://www.annereport.com/formula.html
To hold the RCSC board accountable for their assessing and spending, we are the only game in town. If it weren't for the SCFR, there would be none since most people do not attend meetings and don't know what's happening, and other organizations cooperate with the RCSC having been infiltrated by the "good ole boys".
Sun City West Bill does not live in Sun City and has a view of what's happening here as a Retirement Dream Come True. We ascribed to the same ideals when we arrived, but found something different when we picked up the rock and looked under it.
The SCFR is trying to believe the Dream. However, it is difficult when your property is held hostage to a "cold corporation" with power to rewrite the contract without your permission and assess and spend outrageously on projects you didn't approve of. And if you can't afford to pay them because you are old and on meager income you are advised by the corporation to just move out so the corporation can enrich itself on the $3000 buy-in assessment. Ka-ching! Ka-ching!
Doesn't sound like a Dream Come True anymore to us.
With Membership power, we want to make Sun City homeowner-friendly again. We don't like cold corporations in charge that throw old people under the bus for money.Last edited on Tue Mar 2nd, 2010 02:55 pm by annereport
|
annereport
Member
back to top
|
Wish we had Glen Beck's money!
We'd use it to sue the RCSC for not obeying the Planned Communities Act or Title 10, as well as charging unequal assessments, removing voting rights yet charging mandatory assessments, and on and on.
Since we don't have his money, the cheapest thing to do (although not the easiest) is to gather petition signatures to bring to a membership vote amendments to the RCSC articles of incorporation.
RCSC-approved Petitions P-01 and P-02 will bring to a membership vote amendments to remove the board's power to recall board members and write bylaws/board policies without a membership vote of ratification. We are making history!
Join us!
see http://www.annereport.com/petition.html
|
Say What
Member
| Joined: | Sat Mar 14th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 610 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Anne is never happy! Sad............
|
SunCityWestBill
Member
| Joined: | Thu Oct 11th, 2007 |
| Location: | Tampa |
| Posts: | 794 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Anne, you remind me so much of Glenn Beck, his tactics and antics.
|
annereport
Member
back to top
|
The golf superintendent has never run a single golf course before running eight for Sun City. He doesn't know what he is doing and when he makes a mistake it's eight times worse.
Sun City is in trouble as long as the RCSC board fails to recognize that its golf operations are not up to Del Webb standards and continues with the same guy running the show.
|
ernied
Guest
| Joined: | |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Re: Removing the challenges on the course
This is the worst thing any course can do, people will go elsewhere to play. I do have an issue about the courses here and this is why are the fairways cut so short? They seem to mow them down to the dirt. The roughs are dirt, the root systems seem to be dead at many courses here. I don't understand why as they don't need to mow the rough down to the dirt. Its supposed to be longer than the fairway.
|
annereport
Member
back to top
|
We need to make golf affordable to the homeowners living here. We do that by getting rid of the amateur in charge who is wasting our resources; get an expert in charge so the price can come down.
See http://www.annereport.com/golfprop.html
We could halve the work force and thereby the cost of equipment.
We need to market to golfers who are retiring and can afford to play. The more golfers retiring here the less non-golfers will have to pay. Removing the challenges on the course like they did to Lakes West will not cut it. Again, gutter eyesores instead of golf course water features don't make great marketing tools for pictures in magazines to promote our golf courses.
We need to also promote bowling. And we need to hire Pacific Aquascape to reline Viewpoint Lake. Using any other company is a waste of money as has already been proven to be true.
We're absent from these threads recently because we are busy getting signatures on our two petitions (P-01 and P-02) which will bring to a membership vote amendments to the RCSC Articles of Incorporation. We want to remove the board's power to recall board members or write bylaws, etc., without member ratification. Those changes will put the homeowner in charge of his destiny here. The tax and spenders will be controlled. Seniors on fixed income cannot tolerate the insecurity offered by a group of people who have theirs and then waste money like they did on the Bell Lawnbowling building for $410,000.
Come sign the petitions.
see http://www.annereport.com/petition.html
The picture is of the Lakes West Golf Course "water feature"; it used to look like a natural stream with water falls and ducks floating on it...By the way this eyesore cost $200,000 and it could been done right for $165,000. The gutter contractor is the same one that did the Bell Lawnbowling Building for $410,000...Attachment: gutter1.jpg (Downloaded 148 times)
|
jetcam
Member
back to top
|
Perhaps there are other issues that have Anne detained from being able to post any response. We will all hope that she is well, allowing her to continue her much needed work.
It could also be one of the first times that she, or anyone else, has seen, in print, what the next generation thinks about our home. Del Webb was an entrepreneur, and he saw an opportunity to build a niche community, based up some unique ideas that were very unique to views of 50 years ago. Come to today's world, and there are many more working adults living here, not able to join some of the clubs and activities because their work schedules conflict with the hours of service offered by various activities.
The retirement packages that were enjoyed by those that retired as short as 10 years ago are no longer there for us now. The financial losses to those that thought they could retire within the next few years have been tremendous. Also, trying being an "experienced" worker, and hold onto your job, or worse, go and get another job. The MBA's come into the organization, look around, and decide that what they are paying you for your 30 years of service, they could hire four interns, no benefits, and pocket a bonus for the department savings. You are out the door, no warning, no cake, just a pat on the back and someone says "no hard feelings, okay".
Back in the 80's, job consolidation was a big thing, it was called "job sharing". It ended up that each person would do the work of two people. That is also the advent of the home computer, and viola, now you can work from home and work. There is no time for golf, not even golf lessons. There were times that you were lucky to be included in the family vacations, because at the last minute, something always needed to be done at the office that could only be accomplished by you. When you left to go on a vacation, away from home, you never knew if when you came back, if you still had a job, as it appeared the company motto was "if you don't do it, we will find someone who can."
Why all of this rambling on? Most new boomers coming into the area are not going to be golf players. It costs money to play golf, and they don't have it. Having access to various clubs is going to be a new and strange world, as most of the boomer women have been working outside of the home and have had little time to allow their creative side come out.
Del Webb had ideas that were very encompassing 50 years ago. If none of us wants our investments in our homes and community to slip away, we need to look forward to what other adult communities offer. Wi-Fi access in most public building beyond 5 pm. Computer classes as well as other social type classes offered in the evenings and on weekends. Cooking classes as well as get-together's that allow the meals to be made at one afternoon and taken home. If we are all going to have to pay for the lake, make it more accessible with longer hours and paddle boats. A wine tasting club that can meet at one of the golf course locations. Get the co-op to have a location right here in Sun City so all can have access to fresh fruit and veggies at a great price! A club that will share duties babysitting those that are caring for parents that need full time help. Think of it as a childcare exchange for seniors. Every caretaker needs a few hours or a day off, and this would be a supportive effort between those that need this service.
Read what is out there as to what the graying of America means, and you can get a good idea of how to market to this group of residents. Taking care of their parents, trying to have a life of their own that balances work or retirement, and possibly having bounce back kids from time to time. What I am saying is not new, just news that most don't want to hear. As a Community, we can do this, even to the stubborn codgers that hate everything.
And to stay on track with the topic, golf can be affordable once it is determined just how many courses are really needed for the amount of golfers that actually use the various courses. I would rather close some courses, allow them to remain greenbelt area, reduce the cost of maintenance such as aeration, fertilizer and such. Put the money into making the courses that will remain open the best courses in the area without opening up the courses to public. I still don't like the idea of non-residents strolling in our backyards, under the guise of golfing, and prowling the homes for contents or home invasions.
Last edited on Mon Mar 1st, 2010 05:07 am by jetcam
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 28th, 2010 04:57 pm |
|
41st Post |
rfolland
Member
| Joined: | Wed Mar 25th, 2009 |
| Location: | SCW |
| Posts: | 357 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Bill, after what seems to have been a brief hiatus, do you, by any chance, detect a difference in Anne's writing? It seems to me that the vocabulary, syntax, and arrangement of thoughts are a bit different; that the arguments/discussions are a bit more measured. Could there possibly be a new set of fiingers on the keyboard?
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 28th, 2010 04:34 pm |
|
42nd Post |
Bill Pearson
Member
| Joined: | Fri Oct 13th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 686 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
You will note jetcam that Anne did not respond to your comments, even though you paid tribute to her. The fact is you made one major mistake may have left her speechless: You suggested with the diminishing numbers of golfers the RCSC look at closing a golf course or two. That suggestion would send Anne off the deep end.
Honestly, i don't bring this up to bash Anne. It is more about the challenges of running the community. The fact is, there was an attempt to modify the Articles of Incorporation that would have given greater flexibility to how the golf courses are used (currently they have to remain golf courses, no exception).
Mind you, i'm not suggesting that eliminating golf courses is a good or bad idea. The reality is, people that purchased those homes paid a premium to live on a golf course and to take that away would be wrong. Point being, it isn't that simple.
Let's look at another example: Viewpoint Lake is an important feature in the community. Those benefiting the most are the ones living on the lake. Those of us that take guests there or just enjoy the beauty of the area also benefit. That said, there are lots of folks living in Sun City that don't even know the lake exists. The cost to stop the leakage will be massive...who should pay?
Finally, there has been much discussion about the new Fairway project. Anyone thinking the folks in phase 1 don't deserve a newer, nicer rec center should give their head a shake. There have been thousands and thousands of homes sold in phase 1 since the capital preservation fee was enacted. Don't they have the right to see their investment in the future come to life?
There are no easy answers to the future of Sun City. The best solution is, in my humble opinion, is to start marketing Sun City to the boomers. We have the lowest cost with the most amenities of any active retirement community in the country. We are replacing old and outdated rec centers so we can attract boomers and change the perception that Sun City has (which is imperative).
Ultimately we all need remember Sun City was built for active retirees. With the shift to more and more folks working later in life, those activities are having less value. The good news is, there are still millions of seniors each year that will actually retire and we need to make Sun City one of the places they consider when looking for a retirement value.
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 04:31 am |
|
43rd Post |
jetcam
Member
back to top
|
Anne has the right idea. Get rid of the clique that has taken over the RCSC leadership positions and find folks that are really interested in being involved with the community in the best interest of the community.
As far as having a forward looking group coming in, I would be one of those. Golf has declined, and I am not in favor of opening up the facilities to anyone and everyone outside of Sun City. I say close two of the courses, keep the green space, and install solar collectors to help offset the costs that the homeowners incur to live here. Let Sun City own its own version of a power grid that gets us out of APS' pocket, and allow any extra electric generated be sold to APS, rather then APS dictating to us outlandish rates. We live in the middle of sun country, use it! Once we start to generate our own electic, think of how much the costs can come down of maintaining the RCSC facilities.
We also need to have exceptions to the shed and clothes line issues. We have more sun then we can ever use, so drying clothes on clothes lines, saving the homeowner money, and saving the environment makes way too much sense.
Potting sheds, or storage sheds for those that wish to grow gardens to supplement our food supply, as well as our neighbors food supplies. No, I don't want it attached to the house, that defeats the use of a garden shed. I think that if someone has a six foot fence around their yard, then having the above mentioned items are easily hidden behind the fence. I don't want to do anything additional to my yard, only to have the two old bittys across the street start making trouble. I hear that there is a call for an architectural control committee, well allow them to assist homeowners with purchasing an appropriate shed and placed in the back of the property.
If the current board is removed, I will look to run, as I have a loud enough voice to be heard, and I am loyal to no group, except for the residents of Sun City. My platform: It is the 21st century, make this the community that embaces the new without losing sight of our history. With resident involvement, all is possible. Bust the apathy that has taken a hold of this community, and look for new ways to bring about positive change for all.
|
annereport
Member
back to top
|
Thanks! Typo...
Petition signing and training is daily from noon to 2pm (rain or shine) at the Dog Park, N Thunderbird Rd next door to Washington Federal Savings at Del Webb Bl. La Ronde Centre eastside.
Come join us and bring two issues (Petition P-01 and P-02) to a membership vote.
We want to revise the RCSC articles of incorporation:
1) to remove the board's power to recall board members without a membership vote and
2) to remove the board's power to write bylaws, etc., without a membership vote.
see http://www.annereport.com/petition.htmlLast edited on Sun Feb 28th, 2010 05:00 pm by annereport
|
rfolland
Member
| Joined: | Wed Mar 25th, 2009 |
| Location: | SCW |
| Posts: | 357 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Friday is the 5th... possibly your calendar is out of calibration.
|
SunCityWestBill
Member
| Joined: | Thu Oct 11th, 2007 |
| Location: | Tampa |
| Posts: | 794 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
"annereport", as a resident of Sun City, it is unfortunate your "voice" within these forums is not one of progress. Last edited on Fri Feb 5th, 2010 11:28 am by SunCityWestBill
|
annereport
Member
back to top
|
No matter what generation runs Sun City, golf needs to be affordable. We're fortunate the golf courses are here. They improve air quality and keep dust down. They make Sun City beautiful with less density. They create a better quality of life for everybody, golfers as well as non-golfers.
All we need are professionals to run the operations instead of the amateur they've got now. That point will never change no matter what generation you're talking about.
|
rfolland
Member
| Joined: | Wed Mar 25th, 2009 |
| Location: | SCW |
| Posts: | 357 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
It all depends on your point of view (There are grey hats too) ...... Remember, Anne, the only thing that is constant is change. Each succeeding generation has their own take on the things their elders held sacred. That's the way the world works. You can fight it, but, in the long run it won't matter.
|
annereport
Member
back to top
|
Rfolland is a black hat...not a brown hat (just in cast anyone is just tuning in...)
|
| Current time is 07:10 am | Page: 1 2 3 4   |
|
