| Posted: Wed Feb 3rd, 2010 03:24 pm |
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| Posted: Wed Feb 3rd, 2010 02:53 pm |
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Bill Pearson
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Interesting comments Bill. I did read the article posted on the changing dynamics of retirement communities and i don't disagree, i just see a broader picture than one size fits all.
I have been working with several Pulte folks in the area and we have engaged in a number of discussions that fit into what we are talking about here. They are still using the Webb brand in both their retirement communities and some of their mixed age products. That just makes sense in that the Webb name is synonymous with active retirement settings.
One of their marketing people talked about the diversity of their communities. I saw that as a really good thing. Often, one size does not fit all and the wider range of products, the better the chance to find what one is looking for.
I have said this before and it is worth repeating. We shopped 5 Sun City properties. All were newer and nicer than the one we bought in. All were considerably more expensive as well. None felt as right as the original Sun City. They were just like a comfortable pair of old shoes; Sun City felt right.
I know this community isn't for everyone. The value and the values built into it have a track record of 50 years of unmatched success. No other active retirement community in the country can say that. We have the most amenities at the lowest cost. We still rely on millions of volunteer hours per year to keep going.
Frankly, i don't want to see us try and emulate one of the other "better, prettier" settings. That's not to say we don't evolve and grow, but we do it using the kinds of fabric we were first woven from. There are rich traditions here that shouldn't be forgotten or discarded.
Sun City and Sun City West are unique in many respects. That won't be copied, nor should we try and become something we are not (at least in my humble opinion). The board is dealing with aging buildings and they are doing it just as SunCityJoe suggested; from the monies raised by those buying here. Kudos to them for giving relief to those on tight budgets by not raising rec fees this year.
It just doesn't get any better than in Sun City.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 3rd, 2010 02:30 pm |
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SunCityWestBill
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"Say What" and others, there seems to be in several areas of this forum major issue discussion concerning revenue - present and potential, golf courses and even some minor comment concerning the direction where Sun City, AZ specifically might be headed in the overall scheme of retirement locations.
"rfolland" posted a link to an article recently in the Wall Street Journal that discussed retirement areas and the present amenities provided and possible future required amenities and activities to be considered to attract and interest the looming retirement of "Baby Boomer's" and others reaching retirement age, if these areas are to succeed.
The activities of interest to future residents considering retirement areas for future residence are the relax and generally inactive lifestyles many may be accustomed to today, but active daily involvement such as bike riding, swimming, motorcycling, walking on trails, tennis, hiking and overall continuing to lead a very active lifestyle, in deference to the overall life style which the Sun Cities in Arizona find themselves. I am not saying the Sun Cities populace is just sitting, I am saying the coming generation is considerably more physically active and will seek those first class amenities and activities to support their diversified activities, rather emphasis being placed on primarily just one.
The Board of the Recreation Centers has done a good volunteer's job bringing the "Sun Cities" to where it finds itself today, but it is immediately important for the future to set in motion the "Plan" and financing for tomorrow.
To that end, as a non resident considering the Arizona location, I suggest a panel of retirement location expert consultants be engaged to study the situation of the Arizona Sun Cities to determine if they are ready to accommodate the interests to attract the new retirees and if not, suggest in priority and related cost what would be necessary. It is all well and good to have a Board directing the Centers, but as with any company or organization, professional consultants are engaged to aid the Board in specialized planning and cost analysis, providing for professional future planning and execution..
As the "Sun City" model has been replicated in several locations, it might prove cost effective in having the Boards of these locations communicate and plan as a common group for the future, as they are "feeding" the same "customers" and maybe it is time to embellish the "menu".
Maybe it is time and it may already be occurring, the Boards get together with professional planning consultants for a week meeting to discuss their common goals and plans. If the Board(s) of the Sun Cities in Arizona are not communication with the Boards of the other Sun Cities on a regular basis, this should be a priority immediately addressed. I would think Pulte might be quite interested in facilitating these meetings.
Just a few thoughts from someone who is looking and thinking of the Sun Cities" in Arizona as a retirement residence.
Have a great day.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 3rd, 2010 03:15 am |
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Say What
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In any corporation, decisions are made by the Board and the GM or CEO. Do you think anyone else is qualified to make decisions?
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| Posted: Wed Feb 3rd, 2010 03:04 am |
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suncityjoe
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Annereport, Can't begin to look at mismanagement without essential information. That's why I asked if anyone knew what the breakdown of the wages category was, so we could see what our fees support for each position, not just what the total cost of all positions is as reported on the wages line. While we need competitive wages to interest the best recruits, how do we know if that's what we are offering, and whether or not we are doing so for all positions or just those at the top?
SillyBen, I like the idea of the quarterly reports you mention. Again, it's info that is needed for all to make better decisions. While the rowboat use might seem low in usage numbers, I think it's nice that 800 times people who would not have had use of Viewpoint Lake because they do not live on it or have their own boat, were able to enjoy it. I probably would have as well, but my shoulders and heart don't allow that particular exertion. When talking with my women friends, none of them said they would consider the rowboat option, seeing it as more of a male upper body strength activity and one for those who had a male escort or those wishing to fish. While other women might enjoy it, my particular circle unanimously agreed they would've preferred pedal boats, but those never seemed to be an option. Again, communication and resident input seems to have been lacking.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 1st, 2010 11:57 pm |
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SillyBen
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Joe, you raise some good and perhaps valid points. In the area of activity, I have noticed the monthly numbers of various activities are posted at least quarterly in most of the rec centers I visit. I haven't seen any for golf or lawn bowling but I don't visit those centers. But for the rec centers each physical activity seems to have statistics for swimming, spa, walking pool, miniature golf, ping pong, hand/racket ball, exercise room, etc. by center.
I would certainly find it interesting if the RCSC or the Independent Newspapers would report these quarterly. It would also be informative if the RCSC would put these numbers against the cost of each activity to see what the real cost is. I realize that this is subject to allocation of shared costs, maintenance, etc; but it might give us members a better idea of what is being talked about when 25 people get all up in arms about a board decision.
An example was the hue and cry that went out when they talked about not replacing the rowboats at Lakeview. I noticed last week the boat dock had yellow "do not cross" tape all over it and then noticed the boats had been used less than 800 times through 9/30/2009. Hardly worth the huff and puff, and bleating and bellowing to replace the boats.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 1st, 2010 11:55 pm |
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annereport
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The idea of finding someone else to pay for the lifestyle we want but can't afford is a morally wrong concept.
Instead, look to mismanagement first. We have too many managers and our eight golf courses are being run by a man who had never run one golf course before coming here.
Start there and see what happens.
See our golf proposal:
http://www.annereport.com/golfprop.html
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| Posted: Mon Feb 1st, 2010 11:30 pm |
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suncityjoe
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Back to Ms. Shrum's comments that started this thread. I can understand her concern at a jump from $150 yr. to $210 since a 71% increase is an incredible increase percentage-wise. Realistically though, the rates will always need to be re-evaluated and raised when necessary, but the operative words are "when necessary," and should only be raised when all other ways of generating funds have been explored and found to be inadequate. In a community in which as the years go by, residents will of necessity be less and less active, it is unconscionable to keep raising fees for services they will use less and less. While I empathize with Ms. Shrum's situation, I don't agree that "we who do not want to use the rec centers should not have to pay," for I understand that the rec fee is like people in incorporated cities paying taxes for parks and services they may or not use, and we all benefit aesthetically from the beautiful landscaping, but let's face it, there is an assumed use built into those fees. Therefore, generating income by raising fees should be the last resort and I think some of us get the sense that we're treated as sugardaddies when a lot of us are really struggling jugglers of our expenses.
While as SunCityWestBill wrote:
I do not believe the Del Webb "Sun City" proposition ever hinted it was for "low-income people"
that's not the point. Some of us just wound up being in that category, and now that we are here, we're doing our best to stay here, but raising our fees when we're on fixed incomes is making it harder than it should be.
If any fees need raising, let it be the ones upon transfer of property since that can be built into a mortgage and spread out over time. It's also an up-front cost in a community that a buyer can choose to buy into or not, rather than a "gotcha" cost after a resident has committed to a community and believed costs would be kept reasonable. RCSC consistently mentions the high cost of the golf courses and since that is such a disproportionate slice of the pie, they should look there before raising all our fees. Rather than fee increases for all to help carry the golf course burden, they should look to those who benefit the most from them--not just the players, but the golf course property owners. Upon transfer of those properties, a substantial surcharge should be tacked on, and perhaps "view fees" could be added for the privilege of living on a golf course property, just as lake fees are. Of course, any of that should be grandfathered in, so they aren't the same "gotcha" fees to which I am referring.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20th, 2010 03:20 pm |
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20th, 2010 01:14 pm |
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Say What
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No! I believe the comic is you and Justly.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20th, 2010 12:08 pm |
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annereport
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Say What,
You are not contributing your opinions about this issue. What are they?
Don Rickles comes to mind with your barbs. Are you trying to get a laugh?
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20th, 2010 03:35 am |
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Say What
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You are certainly no rose! The sword and words will get you in the end.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20th, 2010 02:26 am |
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justlivininscty
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SEE SAY WHAT ALWAYS ALWAYS has to be the thorn in the roses, may the tongue to stick out be wacked off by the sword you spew...
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| Posted: Tue Jan 19th, 2010 11:25 pm |
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Say What
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Once again, Knock yourself out!
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| Posted: Tue Jan 19th, 2010 01:20 pm |
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annereport
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"Why can't we all just get along?..."
State an opinion. State an opposing argument. Then, let it go. Do you know the difference between "arguing" and "quarreling"?
We are neighbors. We will probably die here. That's intimacy. We are all wanting the best for the community.
Let's work together to explore the problems and come to the right solutions. We win some; we lose some. It's okay. But, let's not take it personally when we don't agree on every issue.
Anybody who has been married for decades will tell you that you don't remain with another person throughout a lifetime without learning that lesson.
"On to the next argument!" We know where we all stand on this one.
Sorry for the lecture, but you guys are starting to hit the "mom" buttons...
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| Posted: Tue Jan 19th, 2010 03:28 am |
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Say What
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Knock yourself out!
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| Posted: Tue Jan 19th, 2010 12:56 am |
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| Posted: Tue Jan 19th, 2010 12:47 am |
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annereport
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The Sun City Formula Registry is the only organization organized for the purpose of making the RCSC board accountable to the Members.
We are working to pressure the board to obey the laws of this state. We are circulating petitions to change the articles to remove the board's power.
Join. Donate (not tax deductible).
http://www.annereport.com/petition.htmlLast edited on Tue Jan 19th, 2010 12:48 am by annereport
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18th, 2010 09:28 pm |
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SunCityWestBill
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"WHEN YOU GROW UP UNDERSTAND THE REAL FACTS AND TURNS OF EVENTS I WILL DISCUSS IT FURTHER WITH YOU."
You had to be condescending and cynical right to the end, didn't you.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18th, 2010 08:20 pm |
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justlivininscty
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THANK YOU I NEEDED MY LAUGH FOR THE DAY, AND YOU HAVE GIVEN ME THAT ONE.
GLAD IT IS AN OVERCAST DAY WITH RAIN HERE AS I WOULD HATE TO SHADOW THE FACTS ANYMORE FOR YOU.
WHEN YOU GROW UP UNDERSTAND THE REAL FACTS AND TURNS OF EVENTS I WILL DISCUSS IT FURTHER WITH YOU. UNTIL THEN WE WILL AWAIT THE PLANNED COMMUNITY ACT TO HOPEFULLY BE ENACTED INTO SUN CITY AND SEE IT FOLLOW ALL THE LAWS OF OUR STATE.
GOOD DAY 
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18th, 2010 07:29 pm |
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SunCityWestBill
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Say what you will "justlivininscty", no one can logically discuss an issue, nor expect a logical thought out response from someone who "shades the truth", finishes with continual condescending and cynical remarks.
I never "...continue to think we are stupid", have never "you feel that the Articles can be tramped on...", have never "...rants in here and agrees that the board should have all the power to trample your property owner rights into the ground after agreeing to the CC&Rs and Articles etc.", do not "You feel as if you are soley entitled to be in this board and rant but not anyone else". Now that's handled.
It is obvious you are on a mission with an agenda, a mission with a spirit of vindictiveness for something the Sun City Recreation Center administration change in the "Articles" did to effect you. Confront THE issue get it resolved, drop it or move, the Board will NOT acquiesce.
You obviously have passion, but the Recreation Center and its policies are not going to be changed, unless there is a "plan" executed by a residential base, prompted to act by a sizable influential group of conversant individuals who initiate a well thought out "plan", conversant with it and are passionate in its execution and objective, cohesive, focused, well spoken, structured and effective.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18th, 2010 06:12 pm |
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justlivininscty
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I honestly cannot get you to understand something but will attempt to get you to pull your head out of the sand and understand that not all 92000 licensed agents in the state of Arizona even know about the bylaws and articles of Sun City how can they it is a impossibility to know every subdivisions CC&Rs, thats why the buyer pays a TITLE company to get those controlling documents,hmmm is that so hard to understand I dont think so.
Why is this so hard for you to understand that EVERY OTHER PLANNED COMMUNITY in the state of Arizona must comply with the request sent from the title companies regarding all controlling documents, EXCEPT SUN CITY. Is that so flipping hard to get into your brain and really understand. Why is that hard, I see nothing so hard to it personally, Wouldn't you want to have all the documents that are in the AAR contract delivered to you by the title company knowing they are a neutral third party and are HIRED yes HIRED by you the buyer to gather those documents for you and present them for your review within the time allotted by the contract. Is this so flipping hard for you to grasp that Sun City doesn't abide by that law, and this is a major problem.
Why must you continue to think we are stupid, we are not stupid, you feel that the Articles can be tramped on, that a few within a community of 30 thousand plus has no say when the articles clearly state we do, yet you want to side with those who continually break the same laws that were designed by Del Webb for Sun City to follow. And you continue to preach something about a community you do not reside in.
For the life of me I cannot understand anyone that rants in here and agrees that the board should have all the power to trample your property owner rights into the ground after agreeing to the CC&Rs and Articles etc. You feel as if you are soley entitled to be in this board and rant but not anyone else, what gives there, guess one should never vent according to you, YET YOU DO IT. Seems like the same double standard that Sun City is living by these days.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18th, 2010 05:48 pm |
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23rd Post |
SunCityWestBill
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"justlivininscty" had to respond, your rantings cannot go un-noticed and to respond to someone who must believe the world is flat is a unique experience. Too despicable again?
I was surpised you admitted a real estate agent, familiar with the area and the documents needed for the Buyer, suddenly "neglects" to talk about or produce the "Articles" from the Recreation Center because the Center will not provide the "Facilities Agreement" prior to the closing. The agent cannot go to the website, Recreation Center and get a copy for the possible Buyer?
"Articles" - the 10 Rules and Regulations of the Recreation Center. Available prior to closing.
"Facilities Agreement" - document provided by the Recreation Center to be signed by the Deeded owner acknowledging the "Articles" and agreement to abide by them and pay all fees.
So the proposing Buyer or the agent can get them - the "Articles" at will. This way the Buyer knows, beforehand, the "Rules and Regulations".
Seems rather straightforward.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18th, 2010 05:32 pm |
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SunCityWestBill
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"annereport" have made no secret of it - I live in Tampa and have been to the Sun Cities, AZ area and am looking at property and yes, talking to "echo", Recreation Center administration and friends living there.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18th, 2010 01:03 am |
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annereport
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We suspect SunCityWestBill does live here and is a phony trying to look like a disinterested third party. Can he prove otherwise?
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18th, 2010 12:28 am |
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justlivininscty
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What part of non disclosure can you not figure out and get into that brain of yours, so what you are stating is if you were to buy a home from a owner and the OWNER never said a peep about the bylaws etc it would be the buyers neglect, but yet when title orders the controlling docs in a standard sale and they are not given out by RCSC that is fine and dandy and the agent who has driven you around listened to your wants and needs and has been diligent in getting YOU what you want negotiated for you and completed all the legal paperwork and then closes the sale unbeknown to them that the bylaws were never given to the buyer from title because RCSC doesn't have to provide them and they should like every other planned community and you say we are crook and don't deserve a commission, go buy a fisbo and see what you get SCWB.
And by the way you responded to my post after stating you wouldn't, see your word is as good as anyone Else's in here, you are despicable and un knowledgeable about any of the subjects because you don't even live here and GOD forbid you ever do. All you love to do is rail on owners who actually live here, pay the fees and get screwed, it is not you who is getting the shaft it is us so until you reside here, please rag on your own HOA in Florida, seems you were screwed in a previous post by them so go jump on there cases and stay off mine and our community who is attempting to bring some control to OUR COMMUNITY and not yours.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18th, 2010 12:28 am |
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27th Post |
Say What
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Move over!
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18th, 2010 12:17 am |
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justlivininscty
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At least mine is fresh and clean, can you just PLEASE crawl in a hole and be quiet.
Good Day
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17th, 2010 11:56 pm |
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Say What
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It is a "Buyer Beware State"! Study, Read, and investigate before you buy anything.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17th, 2010 11:35 pm |
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SunCityWestBill
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"The statements of buyers are at fault are the most ludicris postings I have seen to date"
Could someone who is a real estate agent, representing buyers and sellers have posted this? Never happen, real estate agents are like Home Inspectors, without the contract.
First the Home Inspector has you sign the contract, then they inspect, you buy, then the roof caves in the next day. Read the contract, the home inspector is not at fault.
So why should a real esate agent make sure - beforehand - their buyer reads the possible sale damaging CC&R's, HOA and Recreation Center Articles. It is not THEIR responsibility. See the posts - someone makes sure you believe those organizations have not done their work. They are to find you a house - (isn't MLS and realtors websites on the Internet great), sit at the closing - they are not attorneys and cannot advise you, collect the commisssion - maybe buy lunch then on to the next.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17th, 2010 10:46 pm |
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annereport
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Say What, why are you putting in your nasty personal comments? You aren't really contributing anything to this discussion.
What do you have to say about the subject of "Fee does not cover all"? You can give your opinion without being so mean to people you don't even know.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17th, 2010 09:49 pm |
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32nd Post |
Say What
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I hope you hold your breath!
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16th, 2010 07:23 pm |
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33rd Post |
justlivininscty
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I couldn't have said it any better. Thanks...
The statements of buyers are at fault are the most ludicris postings I have seen to date, Bring Sun City into FULL disclosure and lets abide by the laws that every other planned community must abide by. I hope to see it in my life time that is for sure.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16th, 2010 07:01 pm |
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annereport
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From the very lengthly writings on this subject (and others on different threads) defending the RCSC and Management by SunCityWestBill, we suspect him to be a phony.
It seems odd that someone would waste so much time learning what he is espousing unless he had an ax to grind.
Could it be he is pretending to be a disinterested third-party researching his new "homeland" but is really trying to influence others to accept the despicable treatment of the Members by the RCSC board and management?
His arguments are tantamount to those that blame the beautiful young girl wearing a short skirt for getting raped. Buyers buy here with stars in their eyes (the kind of person SunCityWestBill proclaims to be with his "baking cookies" stories he envisions in his Sun City future) and have no idea that the contract would actually be changed to remove their voting rights, facility usage, and also increase their annual assessments by 100% and unequally, and their PIF 20% in a depressed real estate market. SunCityWestBill wants Buyers to take the blame by bending over and taking it with a smile.
If we found out he was actually on the board, we wouldn't be surprised. He talks the talk...
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16th, 2010 12:30 am |
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justlivininscty
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GAG OLA BUSTER move here and see the REAL SCENE,, see yah... lol
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16th, 2010 12:27 am |
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SunCityWestBill
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"justlivininscty"
Why don't you tell us how you really feel?
A lot of emotion and random, I cannot even bring myself to say thoughts, are in your post. Do we both not know exactly what your "burr under the saddle" is and it is not an issue soon to be settled.
The Articles were changed / redefined and not in your favor. It is unfortunate you consistently take your ire out on Jan Eck every opportunity you get. She may be unapproachable I do not know, but I do know she is being quite astute by not responding to your "baiting".
You do not know me, but I as have others, have experienced your past ire in these posts for some time. You are quite adapt at throwing crap, but your haste and emotion, has you continually missing the mark and losing the crowd.
I will not respond to any of your further comments in this thread, as you are too emotionally involved. I will however enjoy knowing I do have the facts as I did call and calmly speak with someone at the Recreation Center and was advised of the several scenarios available, other than the computer, to timely receive the Articles in question.
Your anger has clouded your reason and I feel it is not wise to further discuss this with you. Those desiring reasonable comment(s) and information can certainly read my January 15th, 3:06pm post or avail themselves (due diligence) of the information directly from a courteous member of the Customer Service staff, as did I, at a Recreation Center.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15th, 2010 11:10 pm |
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justlivininscty
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Well let me respond to your insane response, ok so you are computer literate, hmmm I am guessing so. So you have been BURNED by your current situation in Florida, this comes from your past posts and how you are doing your SUPER DUTY DUE DILIGENCE with Sun City, so you wont be burned again,but had you not been BURNED you wouldn't have done your super duty due diligence most likely.
Second, where do you get off thinking that such CONTROLLING documents of a planned community shouldn't be sent to title for full disclosure when all of SHOA documents must be, and all other PLANNED COMMUNITIES IN ARIZONA MUST send ALL THE d**n DOCUMENTS FOR REVIEW for the buyers during there 10 inspection.
GIVE ME A BREAK, you are way out in left field here.
There are plenty of snow bird buyers who buy site unseen off of the Internet, yes a bit brazen but very true and then fly out or drive out to see what the heck they actually bought, I know I have represented some, so be it if that is how they want to do it so they can, my god they are of age to make such decisions.
As far as changing RULES, etc, what a joke you are , I sincerely hope that should you decide to buy in SC that this board or some new board change one simple little flipping word that just puts a BURR UNDER YOUR SADDLE and alienates you as well.
How dare you say that's just the way it is , RULES CHANGE, when one buys here and buys here AGREEING to the rules then those rules should stand, you wouldn't know because you haven't been effected by anything because you don't live here, WE DO.
SO SWWB, in closing, how dare you say I am a whiner in essence because they changed the rules and dear sweet little Jan Eck is in the right, this is all about making Sun City what it was when people bought here and when they bought and invested our hard earned money. Just because Sun City is a different bird it should abide by all the laws that all other planned communities have to and DISCLOSE everything, but they don't in a manner that is consitant with every other planned community, that is the point and please don't try saying I can go to the rec center to read it and all the pages of the bylaws that are recorded, or that I can jump on the net, heck my own father doesn't even know how to run a computer, or have it emailed to me or a prospective buyer,and don't say ask the neighbors, hmmm they are in the same boots, and oh please don't harp about the poor home bound, that it is there own tough luck, How dare you be so ignorant to such blatant and disturbing facts that are ruining what Del Webb started and how some loonies are recklessly taking away all our rights, and don't forget now that the quorum has been somewhat disturbed, good luck MR in getting 3500 people to get out and try straightening out what damage has already been allowed to decimate Sun City.
And this statement of yours "Yes, some people do make these mistakes, but, the final responsibility is the BUYER, is so out in left field.
Welcome to Sun City SCWB look forward to meeting you after the screw gets stabbed into your back.
My TERMS and CONDITIONS are factual.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15th, 2010 08:06 pm |
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38th Post |
SunCityWestBill
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I do appreciate some residents of Sun City taking the time to post their feelings in these forums, so some of us who have not yet or are considering moving there are able to get a feeling of the community.
It is however important for us, if comments concerning "Terms and Conditions" are factual.
Due to previous postings, I initiated a search today for factual information.
As a prospective resident, prior to closing, I am able to go to the Recreation Center, sit and read the Articles and the "Facilities Agreement", which when signed at closing, indicates I agree to accept and follow the Articles to which it pertains. I can also go to the Center and receive a copy of these Articles, to which I would be agreeing to comply, by signing the "Facilities Agreement" available at closing. I also could be "emailed" the Articles, to which I would be agreeing to comply, by signing the "Facilities Agreement" at closing. I also could go to http://WWW.SunAZ.com website, Board, Corporate Bylaws and there read the Articles to which I would be agreeing to comply, by signing the "Facilities Agreement" available at closing. The "Facilities Agreement" available at closing, basically says the signer agrees to follow the Articles, which are on the website and available in person at a Recreation Center.
I can do nothing but trust a poster words when they posted "Jan Eck states in the letter she wrote to me personally they DO NOT and WILL NEVER FURNISH those documents to a prospective buyer until signing at title." I believe Jan Eck is more then likely referring specifically to the "Facilities Agreement" not the Articles, which are freely available on their website.
As "true" as this may be, a prospective buyer making a "life investment" in the Sun City community would be foolish not to avail themselves of the opportunity to do "due diligence" by talking to residents, the facility administration, any appropriate Home Owners Associations, an Attorney representing their interests and or a real estate agent. If someone were foolish enough to blithely make an investment in a "planned community" without availing themselves of the "knowledge base" shame on them. They have no one to complain to who could reasonably assuage their feelings.
Yes, some people do make these mistakes, but, the final responsibility is the BUYER.
Also, things change. Agreements have amendments and maybe a deeded owner could get 2 cards at one time and maybe today it has changed and no "grandfather"clause was inserted, so a proviso was made that other people in the house now have to pay a fee. So be it. It is the way it is. Complain although they may about that specific issue, it seems that particular "burr under the saddle" more often then not carries over to other seemingly unchangeable at the time , but did change, policies. Things change in Sun City and in Ridgewood, NJ.
From afar, it would seem to this poster progress on changing a certain bothersome issue would be made if there were provided, in these public forums, an un-emotional overview of an issue and offering a point by point explanation how the author sees it affecting the overall community. All too often an issue is stated and accompanied with questionable details and effects. Rarely, if ever, is a reasonable point by point solution offered, rather condescending and taking things the wrong way is the retort. Childish and very non-productive. Proposing a petition is being drafted and circulated and then later requesting an uneducated and unaware public to sign in meaningful numbers, is being overly optimistic to affect meaningful change.
One certainly cannot fault any individual being passionate about contributing to the betterment of a situation, but their possibly considering the taking of a situation one by one, with factual point by point backup and explanation would be more productive and less divisive in the long run.
Last edited on Fri Jan 15th, 2010 08:13 pm by SunCityWestBill
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15th, 2010 04:36 pm |
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39th Post |
annereport
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The Sun City Formula Registry agrees that the RCSC is blatantly disobeying the planned communities act (Title 33 Chapter 16), i.e., open meetings, open records, recall, and more. Yet, the RCSC claims the "common area" tax exemption that is afforded to planned communities. We believe this is fraud. Ms. Ek claimed the reason is the difference in the two statutes's definitions which is the word "and" instead of "or". We are dealing with our representatives to get that language conformed so that there is no doubt that the RCSC is not only a planned community, but the first one and the originator of all that followed celebrating its 50th Anniversary.
We also believe the RCSC board of directors should have their power removed and are circulating two petitions to bring to a membership vote amendments to the RCSC articles of incorporation.
http://www.annereport.com/petition.html
We want the members to be the only ones to remove a duly-elected board member and to require member ratification of any changes to the bylaws, board policies, or any other rule, however denominated, that "changes the contract."
We need circulators. Call us at 933-6192 or anne@annereport.com to help.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15th, 2010 03:27 pm |
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40th Post |
justlivininscty
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Let me clarify one MAJOR IMPORTANT aspect to buying here in SUN CITY.
RCSC is NOT required to send any of the documents relating to RCSC, aka facilities agreement, bylaws, etc to the title company during the 10 day inspection review process given to all buyers in the AAR purchase contract. SHOA must send the CC&Rs by law, but since RCSC flys by a different bird as Jan Eck states in the letter she wrote to me personally they DO NOT and WILL NEVER FURNISH those documents to a prospective buyer until signing at title.
Now this is wrong and we all know this. So SAY WHAT, please understand one thing. I am sure you do not enter into a dealership when you purchase a car and sit and read every line , line by line and then walk out if you do not understand that one fine line. You sign and eat crow like so many other people do and have done here in Sun City.
If you feel that RCSC plays by the rules of OPEN DISCLOSURE you are sadly mistaken. If you come back at me and say it is the REALTORS fault for not supplying them , then you are on crack or maybe a few too many wines. RCSC and SCHOA should be providing all vital information regarding the rules and regulations of residing in Sun City PRIOR to signing on the dotted line CASE CLOSED, and besides not only that to do, RCSC should not ever be allowed to CHANGE that document that has been signed and recorded with the state to disallow residents their rights to use the facilities by changing wording in the bylaws from DEEDED OWNERS to SPOUSES and alienate 800 plus members and revoke our cards.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 12th, 2010 05:11 am |
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41st Post |
Say What
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Ha! Ha! You are wrong big time. I could care less about lawn bowling but I do know that many residents enjoy the facilities that are provided.
I think we could fit the number of your so-called supporters in that building picture you uploaded!
Once again I ask, why don't you volunteer and serve our community? I think you are all wind!Last edited on Tue Jan 12th, 2010 03:17 pm by Say What
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11th, 2010 11:16 pm |
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42nd Post |
annereport
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The RCSC has their supporters. We have ours. That's the political process. There's no need to be rude. It's rude to use the term "running you mouth" (what dialect is that?) when all we are doing is expressing an opinion which in America we are entitled to do.
Check out these newszap threads and you might conclude Say What is a known "Boardie" probably enjoying the Bell Lawnbowling Building costing homeowners $410,000; that's a one-room, two-toilet block-walled building and the price doesn't include the land.
Or, maybe the $20 million Fairway Project that was started by the Computer Club. That project is only half finished and was started without cash in hand or a membership vote of approval as required by Article X:
ARTICLE X
The highest amount of indebtedness or liability, direct or contingent, to which the Corporation may at any time subject itself shall be limited to $750,000 or any greater amount which may be authorized by three-fourths (3/4) of the Members present at a duly called and noticed meeting of the membership, or in such amounts as may be authorized by the Arizona Corporation Commission.
Just out of curiosity, which one are you benefiting from or is it both, Say What? Correct us if we're wrong...Attachment: DSCN0347[1]-081118-front.JPG (Downloaded 149 times)
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11th, 2010 10:45 pm |
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43rd Post |
Say What
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You will never understand the Sun City concept! As Bill Pearson's said, why don't you run for the Board instead of running you mouth?
I believe we all ask that question!
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11th, 2010 10:22 pm |
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44th Post |
annereport
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Buying into Sun City means you are buying into Del Webb's "Retirement Dream Come True." The facilities were put here first before the homes in order to attract home buyers.
The facilities must be paid for by all homeowners whether they use them or not because they are enhancing everybody's property values and quality of life.
Once you sign the facilities agreement you are bound to pay mandatory assessments. If you cannot pay, you can go to the Sun City Foundation and apply for aid to cover your annual assessment. If you are refused and you cannot pay, the RCSC can foreclose on your house.
Since everyone has to pay it is of dire importance for everyone to become involved in watching the RCSC board of directors because they are the spenders and assessors. Only by controlling the board will you keep your annual assessments down.
We are The Sun City Formula Registry, the "action of the Members." Join us. We recommend homeowners attend meetings and write letters to protest board actions. If you cannot attend, then read the Sun Views, the Sun City Independent and The Anne Report ( http://www.annereport.com )to keep informed on the issues facing us here.
We are embarking on a historic 2010 RCSC Membership Petition to change the articles of incorporation to remove the board's power to recall board members or write bylaws/board policies without member ratification.
Follow the progress on http://www.annereport.com/petition.html
Membership action is the only way to secure your retirement dream when it is threatened by five board members who love to spend and assess making homeowners their "Deep-Pocket Slaves."
We need signers and circulators. Call 933-6192 or email at anne@annereport.com to be contacted. (Donations are not tax-deductible.)Attachment: Lake_View.jpg (Downloaded 150 times)
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Say What
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All residents who purchase a home in Sun City sign a contract with the RCSC to pay the assessment fee every year! This is in addition to the CCR's you must abide by.
This will not change any time soon if ever. It is just like taxes and death!
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SunCityWestBill
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I do not believe the Del Webb "Sun City" proposition ever hinted it was for "low-income people". I would think in all the paperwork regarding the Recreation Centers, there is mention the fees may change and additonal "services" would have an additional fee(s).
If people do not read and understand all the information about a place and all the Terms and Conditions of a "structured" community and attend the meetings and be aware of any and all potential changes, they are responsibile. It is just the way it is, unfortunate in some cases as we see here, but still the way it is.
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RustyBradshaw
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Editor’s note: Copied below is a letter to the editor submitted to the Sun Cities Independent. You can post your opinions by clicking on "Reply."
Fee does not cover all
I am a retiree and a wodow. I am also on a low income.
I thought Sun City was for retired people and I thought it was for low-income people as well. I was living in Phoenix and became a widow in 1981. I lived in the Maryvale area and it has become a place for more Mexicans. I am not against them, or anyone for that matter, but I decided to put my house up for sale because of the loud, so-called music that went on until early morning.
I checked into Sun City and I liked it. But now I am not so sure.
My house is nice and the price was right. But I was told the Sun City recreation fee that all homeowners here pay would allow you to do anything in Sun City. But it is not true.
The only things you can do are use the pool, exercise and shuffleboard. Everything else you have to pay more for. I do not have money to do this and the rec fee has gone up quite a bit as well. It started out to be $150 a year and now it is $210, and you still have to pay for the other stuff besides.
I just do not use the centers because I do not have the extra money. I have talked to other people here and they think we should not have to pay the rec fee if we do not use the facilities. Something needs to be done so we who do not want to use the rec centers should not have to pay.
Louise Shrum
Sun City
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