| Posted: Sun Feb 28th, 2010 08:52 pm |
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rfolland
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If you say so.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 28th, 2010 08:39 pm |
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| Posted: Sun Feb 28th, 2010 05:11 pm |
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rfolland
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Something has changed.....
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| Posted: Sun Feb 28th, 2010 05:02 pm |
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| Posted: Sun Feb 28th, 2010 03:57 pm |
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rfolland
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annereport.. an observation: By my reckoning, you seem to have been absent from the forums for a short period of time. Now that you're back, I get the impression that something has changed. Your vocabulary has changed a bit, the syntax of your writing is different, and your arguments are put together in a different, more organized format. It's almost as if there is a different set of fingers on the keyboard..........
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| Posted: Sun Feb 28th, 2010 03:36 pm |
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annereport
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Just checking in to see if you all have contributed anything new to this thread.
No. Nothing. Only "Anne Randall Stewart Bashing."
Better to deal with the issues than to demean yourselves by these tactics schoolboys use in the school yard.
Next, you'll say, "I know you are but what am I?"
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| Posted: Sun Feb 28th, 2010 05:01 am |
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bmw1
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Wow! You folks actually got Little Orphan Annie to go away! Of course, I may be giving all of you too much credit. It could be that she had to drop everything in order to get to her secret meeting place (bat cave?) so she could address her thousands of followers.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 5th, 2010 11:48 pm |
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SunCityWestBill
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"Illeism
Description - Illeism is referring to oneself in the third person.
Example - We are grateful for your gifts, good sir. I am the king. He is displeased.
Discussion - Referring to yourself in the third person detaches yourself from that person. This can make the speaker seem objective. It can also be used to highlight an exalted persons position, letting the speaker put themselves on a pedestal (and figuratively stand below the pedestal in worship of him- or herself).
Hmmm
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| Posted: Fri Feb 5th, 2010 11:11 pm |
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rfolland
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It is a possibility as she has always referred to herself in the third person or plural.
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SunCityWestBill
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It would give credence to those having an "evil twin".
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rfolland
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Bill: Are you really sure it's Anne? After a day and a half of not posting, annereport returns with clear, concise posts that don't vaguely ramble. The verbiage has changed as has the syntax of the writing. One would almost suspect that there is a different set of fingers on the keyboard.
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SunCityWestBill
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It is Anne,
It is her way of trying to continue her self image of self importance. She feels by doing this, she is "giving you her permission" to continue. and she feels more superior.
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Say What
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Why do we care?
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annereport
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Continue your discussion. It's too repetitive for us so we'll sign off.
See you on another thread...
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SunCityWestBill
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"katiem", I figure with the total number of residents, and taking into consideration the utterly vast following "annereport" has, nothing much is going on that disturbs me.
Then we have the few posting about carrying their weapons into a meeting, after being told " NO" on private property, the authority to make this rule being given them by the owners, the number of people continually arguing about Jan Eck, people posting about their not being able to get a second Recreation Card when they are not on the Deed of a property - I think the place is hilarious and successful.
The real possibility of purchasing property with no school taxes, low property tax, low home owners and auto insurance and decent weather. Not a bad deal and there are things to do and places to reasonably drive to. I understand there is an Archy's Deli in Surprise that is great.
Seriously, how much damage can some of the few posters in here do to a place established 50 years ago. They are still trying to push "their noodle" up a hill and think they are making progress. It keeps them busy, happy and obviously not thinking too much.
Last edited on Thu Feb 4th, 2010 06:46 pm by SunCityWestBill
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katiem
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To Sun City West Bill from Tampa:
What is it that makes you so intent on moving to the Arizona Sun Cities?Everyone complains constantly about everything. They'll still be at it when you get here. And don't tell me you'll run for the RCSC board so you can help. They complain and complain about the board, which is made up of volunteers. I feel for the paid employees. The complainers complain and complain if they have to pay for any services. I think it would discourage people from moving or visiting here, especially since all these misanthropes can now carry guns.
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SunCityWestBill
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Anne, people are having an educated discussion, wait until it's finished before you further embarrasses yourself.
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annereport
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Spare us any more of your ideas against our First and Second Amendment rights. We know where you stand.
Why did you come to Arizona? Because you didn't like where you used to live.
Now, you want to change Arizona into what you came from.
Your ideas won't make Arizona better. If your ideas were any good, you would've saved yourself the expense of a moving van by staying where you were.
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rfolland
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Agreed. These proposed bills will only serve to complicate the SC situation where a big stink has arisen from the Rec Board's decision to ban weapons from Rec facilities. There are some folks who are having trouble with the fact that the 2nd Amendment applies to governmental power, as do all of the Bill of Rights, and not to the holders of private property. I can bar you from my property if you're carrying a weapon or because I don't like the color of you shoelaces. On my property, I can also deny you "free speech" or "freedom of religion" and can have you removed as a trespasser if you won't comply. Freedoms are not absolute.
I really don't think that these bills, if passed into law, along with all the other B.S. that's going on will do a whole lot to improve Arizona's image, especially in the business/tourism world.
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RetSgt
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rf - I am well aware that Senator Pearce is a conservative Republican. I was referring to "liberalizing" the AZ gun laws.
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rfolland
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RetSgt: Liberal gun laws? I think you've got it backwards. These revised looser gun laws have all been proposed by conservative Republicans. The laws may liberalize gun ownership/carrying laws, but they are not the product of liberal legislators.... and police associations have spoken out against them.
Last edited on Wed Feb 3rd, 2010 08:53 pm by rfolland
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RetSgt
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I agree with Senator Russell Pearce(R-Mesa) on a number of issues, but his stance on concealed weapons is just plain crazy. I, and many others, are authorized CCW and that's because we are either retired law enforcement or as a citizen applied for a permit, had firearms training and have gone through a background check.
The idea of anybody carrying a concealed weapon without the above checks makes no sense. I hope law enforcement speaks out on this issue. If all of the new liberal gun law legislation goes into effect, I wonder what it will do to the AZ tourism industry.
Second amendment rights are important, but common sense should also apply.
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SunCityWestBill
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Sometimes I carry it on a chain around my neck with my reading glasses.
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Say What
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It is difficult to carry when you are on the treadmill! If you put it on the floor, you can't reach it when those youngster gang members raid the rec centers.
This state still thinks it is the 1860's.
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SunCityWestBill
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Good, it's about time. I hate to have my "rights" stepped on. Now if we can eliminate the Board at all the Recreation Centers and just let people do what they want and pay / or not any fees or dues all will start to get back to where our founding fathers wanted it. Preserve what. Eliminate the Preservation Fee and well, maybe even refund it to anyone that ever paid it. Move to Sun City, leave everything the way it was - it was just fine when they built it, why change or improve a thing. All these "newcomers" wanting to change things and thrying to get people all upset and sign things they do not understand. Just 'taint right.
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rfolland
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Hi Bill, the story is at http://www.azfamily.com According to the story, the bill not only eliminates the CCW permit, but it also eliminates any training requirements. Looks like you just buy the gun and stick it in your pocket.
Last edited on Tue Feb 2nd, 2010 05:22 pm by rfolland
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SunCityWestBill
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"rfolland", I hope this also eliminates the time consuming training and learnng the responsibilities.
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rfolland
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Anne, this should make you exceedingly happy. As of today, Feb 2, there are two bills in the AZ legislature, which, if passed into law, will eliminate CCWs and allow anyone who can legally obtain a weapon to carry it concealed without any of the nasty messing about with background or mental health checks or expiring permits. Of course it still doesn't say anything about carrying weapons on private property against the owner's wishes.... maybe another law is needed.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29th, 2010 02:23 pm |
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29th, 2010 12:09 am |
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SunCityWestBill
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Seldom right and wrong again Anne.
No more, it just is not fair to "challenge" you. It's too easy.Last edited on Fri Jan 29th, 2010 12:16 am by SunCityWestBill
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28th, 2010 10:51 pm |
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28th, 2010 05:03 pm |
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SunCityWestBill
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Typical and "cute" response Anne.
No where in my post do I see "neighbor", "neighbor knows" or "control". I guess you see what you want to see.
So often Anne you play to the "cute" response and then get oh so "offended" when someone would not use the Kings English. You admittedly did not do it this time, but as you so often go "off topic", I thought a "non-sequitor" would not be a problem.
I am quite familiar with the CCW Permit requirements and responsibilities and would hope individuals actually carrying a concealed weapon would not also only also be aware of the requirements and responsibilities, but would also be prudent enough to follow them.
This thread was initiated by a letter to THE INDEPENDENT containing the following: "...I would show the gun and then only use it if necessary to protect myself and anyone around me." This is not right. A person does not "show the gun"as an attempt to "threaten" someone and it is very questionable about their involvement in assuming the personal responsibility to protect someone else if they were threatened.
My views are moderate and thoughtful and I am able to listen and consider reasonable, factual and various viewpoints. I am able to make a decision, but "control", I think not. Again Anne, your words with no facts, just an individuals questionable "annereport" interpretation.
"And don't worry about us; we can take care of ourselves". "annereport", noted for continuing varying comments on a plethora of subjects, reports and petition initiatives leads one to wonder. But as long as you're happy.
Last edited on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 08:05 pm by SunCityWestBill
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28th, 2010 03:19 pm |
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annereport
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SunCityWestBill,
You do not know what your neighbor knows or does not know. It's out of your control. You cannot control your neighbor.
However, you have nothing to fear because you don't live anywhere near the CCWs in Arizona. But, be forewarned, if you decide to move here, CCWs are everywhere.
With your views, you'd be better off staying put, otherwise you'd be a nervous wreck.
Control seems to be an issue with you. You even want to control the Second Amendment rights of people living thousands of miles away from you even though the bullets fired off here will never reach you. Relax. And don't worry about us; we can take care of ourselves. Although, we could worry about you because you are defenseless unless you can get a policeman there in time to save you.Attachment: SquadCar.gif (Downloaded 132 times)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28th, 2010 02:33 pm |
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SunCityWestBill
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"annereport" you having a CCW Permit does not scare me, your actually carrying a lethal weapon, with your limited and here say knowledge of the legal facts concerning its use, does. You will harm someone and then give the big tearful explanation, after talking to an attorney, "I did not know". At that time it is too late.
Freedom of speech is a wonderful right, but the person shouting "fire" in a crowded theater does have moral and legal accountability. You better be absolutely sure you know what you are doing and the implications involved when you show and use your weapon.
Last edited on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 02:43 pm by SunCityWestBill
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28th, 2010 01:30 pm |
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annereport
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SunCityWestBill and RFolland should tell their "gun-toting, senile" neighbors to butt out when they are threatened. But, they should leave the rest of us to protect ourselves and our neighbors who agree with us. Attachment: RespectingNeighborsOpinion.jpg (Downloaded 133 times)
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26th, 2010 07:05 pm |
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SunCityWestBill
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Some interesting observations from Arizona weapon professionals and instructors. Those people, having been instructed in the proper carrying and handling of a concealed weapon, agree to follow the "T & C"'s of its responsibility. It is also, as the law states, the right of the owner (or management given the right by the owner) of a private establishment may request a person carrying a firearm to remove the gun from the premises.
A person with a proper driver's license and a properly licensed vehicle is requested not to park in a certain area by an Airport Manager. The Airport Manager, while not owning the Airport, has been given the authority, by the taxpayers to make and enforce those rules and regulations providing for the smooth operation of the airport and safety of its users. He does not believe it to be in the best interests of the flying public for an individual to park in the middle of a street. Yes, it is the driver's right to drive and yes it is a public street, but it is the "right" of the Airport Manager to prohibit the parking in the middle of the street to provide for the safety of other driver's and the traveling public. Kind of like the Recreation Centers and the "Management" requesting people not bring their lawfully registered weapons onto Recreation Center property.
"The Arizona CCW permit is good for a period of 5 years from date of issuance. After that you will have to submit a renewal by mail. There is no training or re-qualification requirement. If you address is current with the DPS, which it should be based on DPS rules, you will receive a renewal packet in the mail approximately 90 days before your permit expires. You need to submit a renewal application, a new fingerprint card and your $65 fee in the form of a certified check or money order payable to the Arizona Department of Public Safety.
"You should understand that attending an Arizona CCW permit class and receiving your permit DOES NOT make you proficient in the use of your firearm. It simply means that you have received some basic training on a broad range of topics that DPS wants you to be exposed to prior to the issuance of a permit. If you intend to carry a firearm on a daily basis for personal defense, you absolutely need to get additional training in the use of your firearm."
"In Arizona, specifically, firearms are prohibited in public buildings and events if the owner or sponsor requests that a person carrying a weapon place the weapon in storage. In addition, the owner of a private establishment may request a person carrying a firearm to remove the gun from the premises; a person who refuses to comply may be charged with criminal trespassing.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26th, 2010 05:53 pm |
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rfolland
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Some thoughta on seniors and CCWs:
My late father was in full-blown senile dementia when he passed away at age 88 in a nursing home. By the time he passed, he had long since ceased to be a reasonable person and had become a bit of a "problem" to the staffers.
My late father-in-law, a somewhat irascible man who passed away at age 90, was living alone (wife in hospice) in rural Georgia unable to effectively fend for himself. The decision was taken by his son (court appointed guardian) to move him to an assisted living facility which was co-located with the hospice where his wife was. On moving day, his son and the folks from the center were confronted with an armed angry old man who was bound and determined to stay in his house. Deputies were called who talked him out of the weapons... in Maricopa County, he might well have been shot.
A few years back on an episode of the TV show COPS, there was an incident in Texas where a sweet little old lady would fire a few shots into her backyard toward her detached garage every time she thought that she heard a noise at night. The officer at the scene said that there wasn't anything they could do... she had a right to have the gun.
Question: Since CCWs are apparently granted on a one-time basis with no expiration date, shouldn't there be a mechanism to evaluate the mental state of carriers and, if deemed appropriate, abridge their Second Amendment rights so as to protect the rest of us from someone who is on the long slide to senility, or is the right to bear arms absolute and the bearer not subject to scrutiny vis-a-vis mental competency? After all, once you attain age 65, you have to appear in person for a vision test as a part of an every five year driver's license renewal.
Last edited on Tue Jan 26th, 2010 06:19 pm by rfolland
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26th, 2010 04:43 pm |
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SunCityWestBill
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Lucy, I am not sure to which post I commented you are responding.
I did notice you said in your recent response "But, if any where someone would attempt to rob or molest me, I would show the gun and then only use it if necessary to protect myself and anyone around me. I have been trained to use it properly and respect its use."
I might suggest you re familiarize yourself with the laws regarding a CCW Permit. I do not believe gun owners per se, would agree that you "show your gun" without initial intent to use it. Just to "brandish" your weapon to protect yourself or anyone else around you is not only not a prudent use of the weapon, but unless you are faced with "life threatening similar force" it might be considered illegal.
I would believe the Recreation Centers, although possibly and casually considered "public property", are in fact under the egis of the Board of Directors, given this authority by the property owners to control and manage the facilities and enact such rules and regulations to protect to the best of their ability not only the property, but its occupants. If they have deemed it prohibitive to carry a concealed weapon upon this property, for the overall safety and protection of the property and its occupants, they have the authority to do so. The Board is not prohibiting the carrying of a concealed weapon on the public way, just within the confines of the Recreation Center property.
I do believe people have rights and they should be protected, but if the house next door is being robbed, you do not have the right to go over and shoot the robber. You are not the protector of anyone else., but yourself. If you feel you might be "threatened" at a meeting, would it not be the more prudent and legal thing to do to remove yourself from a might happen or impending threat? Yes it would. Just carrying a gun and possibly in a situation insisting you have the "right" when faced with a life threating situation, might find you dead. Acting in haste and insisting on your rights, may give you the time to repent in leisure.
I am sure others will comment, but I and other generally find their comments are of the the "same old, same old" and rarely contributory.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26th, 2010 12:10 pm |
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annereport
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Lucy Walton has a Second Amendment right to defend herself and her family and friends. The "militia" argument, so far, has not been embraced by the Supreme Court.
See the "Luby's Massacre" testimony. It's worth watching.
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=M1u0Byq5Qis
Lucy, thank you for your preparedness. Seniors need to be able to defend themselves. You have been tested on the laws and on the shooting range. You would not have been given the CCW permit otherwise. Congratulations!
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25th, 2010 11:52 pm |
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doctor-rose
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A few questions here Lucy. First do you belong to a militia, and if so Army, Marines, Navy, Airforce, National Guard, Coast Guard? That's what the 2nd amendment requires. Next you put your purse with your gun down on the floor next to me, a person comes in behind us at a meeting, starts shooting with an automatic rifle, you may have a very remote chance to get your gun out, and if you do you start shooting, how many innocent people are going to be victims of your shots. At 85 do you really have the nerves of steel, the calm demeanor, the steady arm, and the necessary quick responses to really make a difference and save some lives?
No, I feel most people that want to carry a gun are those that are insecure in their surroundings. You/they in all probability will not be able to make that difference.
How many gun carriers in Sun City use a walker, ride a scooter, a wheelchair, walk unsteady with a cane? Think about it. I'm more scared of your actions than the slighest possiblity of someone really going to attack us.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25th, 2010 04:39 pm |
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43rd Post |
RustyBradshaw
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Why oppose permits?
I am replying to SunCityWest Bill and Doctor Rose in the Public Forum (Sun City Independent, Jan. 13, 2009).
I am an 85-year-old Sun City resident with a concealed carry weapons permit and I do carry. I cannot, for the life of me, see how if I were sitting next to you in a meeting with my purse containing a loaded weapon beside me on the floor that this would in any way affect you being there also. You’d never know.
Granted, there is little likelihood of anyone at a Sun City meeting starting a commotion where I would ever have need to use the gun. But, if any where someone would attempt to rob or molest me, I would show the gun and then only use it if necessary to protect myself and anyone around me. I have been trained to use it properly and respect its use.
Let me suggest, Doctor Rose, that you read an NRA magazine, namely "First Freedom," for women and the monthly column, "Armed Citizen." Each month new actual happenings are described where, without a weapon, many American citizens would no longer be living. I’ll even send you my copy if you want "...to see a report that a CCW has stopped a crime in progress..."
I still cannot see why so many people are against someone who has a CCW. You should feel more protected with us in your midst, as we are not people who would cause a crime, but people who would prevent them.
Lucy Walton
Sun City
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