| Posted: Fri Feb 5th, 2010 08:46 pm |
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| Posted: Fri Feb 5th, 2010 08:38 pm |
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MrsK2009
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ShannonFlynn wrote:
Cant be talking about me. I have been on the left side of the room since about Apr last year.
I actually agreed with you on that issue and I think many of the current ordinances on the books should be scrapped.
Now we are getting somewhere. This is cool!
You are correct; I was not talking about you.
Yes, reasonable people can agree on some things and disagree on others.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 5th, 2010 04:24 am |
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ShannonFlynn
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"this City Council is constantly trying to sneak things through".
Many seem to, but in all fairness not all 7 of them do this.
Shannon
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| Posted: Fri Feb 5th, 2010 02:56 am |
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Starlit
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MrsK2009 wrote: Starlit wrote:
As to drafting the law first, that's a daft idea. The more that they work on it, the more it will be seen as accepted. Typically, MRS K that's how things are sneaked through.
If you want to be an apologist for these types of people, go right ahead.
There are existing laws in Arizona, MRS K.
Secondly, this City Council is constantly trying to sneak things through. For example a new tax (Last Tuesday's City Council Meeting). Yes, sneak is the very word to use.
As far as the red stickering which I wrote about, that is a ridiculous idea. I've explained the problems of vindictive neighbors. One other problem is sadly, not enough police power.
I've written much on this subject.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 5th, 2010 01:50 am |
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ShannonFlynn
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MrsK2009 wrote: Yeah, look how far it got you.
If you have ever watched the videotaped meetings - which I am sure that you have - you must know that the camera also captures a great deal of the audience. I have observed the behavior of some people, whose names I shall not mention, who intentionally position themselves right in front of the camera so as to be seen.
I have no issue about your speaking about the fence ordinance; that is not what I was referring to. I actually agreed with you on that issue and I think many of the current ordinances on the books should be scrapped.
"who intentionally position themselves right in front of the camera so as to be seen".
Cant be talking about me. I have been on the left side of the room since about Apr last year.
I actually agreed with you on that issue and I think many of the current ordinances on the books should be scrapped.
Now we are getting somewhere. This is cool!
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| Posted: Fri Feb 5th, 2010 01:26 am |
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MrsK2009
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Yeah, look how far it got you.
If you have ever watched the videotaped meetings - which I am sure that you have - you must know that the camera also captures a great deal of the audience. I have observed the behavior of some people, whose names I shall not mention, who intentionally position themselves right in front of the camera so as to be seen.
I have no issue about your speaking about the fence ordinance; that is not what I was referring to. I actually agreed with you on that issue and I think many of the current ordinances on the books should be scrapped.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 5th, 2010 01:16 am |
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ShannonFlynn
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MrsK2009 wrote: I said I could hear it on the video tape. Never said I was at the meeting. You're swinging at windmills. I don't have to be at the meetings to know that you are doing everything you can to disrupt them. It is because of people like you that I prefer watching on-line. At some future point I may have an interest in addressing the council, at which time I will ask to be placed on the agenda.
Your behavior at city council meetings, so easily observed by anyone with a computer, is infamous. But you knew that, right?
Have fun.
I don't have to be at the meetings to know that you are doing everything you can to disrupt them.
Where have you been the past year or so K. I have spoke 2 maybe 3 times about the fence issue this past 12 months... I do everything I can to disrupt them? The meetings???? That is news to me. I'll have to go check the web on that one.
It is because of people like you that I prefer watching on-line.
You should go more often. Say what you have to the person you are attacking. You know face to face.... Not with a nameless name on some blog... Fair is fair.
I'm infamous? Some people say that. I am the recall queen after all.
Shannon Flynn
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| Posted: Fri Feb 5th, 2010 12:59 am |
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MrsK2009
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I said I could hear it on the video tape. Never said I was at the meeting. You're swinging at windmills. I don't have to be at the meetings to know that you are doing everything you can to disrupt them. It is because of people like you that I prefer watching online. At some future point I may have an interest in addressing the council, at which time I will ask to be placed on the agenda.
Your behavior at city council meetings, so easily observed by anyone with a computer, is infamous. But you knew that, right?
Have fun.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 5th, 2010 12:51 am |
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ShannonFlynn
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MrsK2009 wrote: No, I was not at this week's meeting. However, I have been attending the meetings when I have an interest since the city became incorporated. I watch the meetings online as a rule as I'm involved in quite a few things locally and my Tuesday nights are committed to something else. Additionally I have lived outside the city limits of Apache Junction the past few years and my interest in the city council is limited to those items that affect businesses, since I operate one within the city limits and am involved with a local non-profit.
Your rants speak for themselves. Everyone who reads them gets a pretty good picture of where you're coming from.
Darling your good for a laugh or two but now your just restating what I have been saying all along about your pissing contest with Steve and I bringing our girls to the meetings. How cute.
Tuesday nights are committed to something else. Additionally I have lived outside the city limits of Apache Junction the past few years and my interest in the city council is limited to those items that affect businesses, since I operate one within the city limits and am involved with a local non-profit.
That's what I have been saying..... Your not at the very meetings that you yell at me for bringing the girls to. Hypocritical. You never did tell me how many meetings our girls attending in the past 3 months. This is why! Shaking my head at you....
Time to go, have a doll house and my little pony date with my girls.
Shannon Flynn
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MrsK2009
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No, I was not at this week's meeting. However, I have been attending the meetings when I have an interest since the city became incorporated. I watch the meetings online as a rule as I'm involved in quite a few things locally and my Tuesday nights are committed to something else. Additionally I have lived outside the city limits of Apache Junction the past few years and my interest in the city council is limited to those items that affect businesses, since I operate one within the city limits and am involved with a local non-profit.
Your rants speak for themselves. Everyone who reads them gets a pretty good picture of where you're coming from.
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ShannonFlynn
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Of course I know who you are. Another endness pissing contest Mrs. K? Really????
You must not have been at last night's meeting. Everyone in our roll seemed to ENJOY both our girls. Just ask Mr. S. He had to set with a number of young men under the age of 13. 
Didnt say I knew you not to be there. Reread.
Last edited on Fri Feb 5th, 2010 12:31 am by ShannonFlynn
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MrsK2009
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You don't know who I am, so how would you know if I attended the meeting?
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ShannonFlynn
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MrsK2009 wrote: I never mentioned the chief and officers. But just think what a scene you could make if they told you to leave the meeting. A constitutional scholar like yourself should have a lot of fun with that. I have heard a young child making noise on the videotape. If I can hear it on video, then that means you don't always take her outside. It becomes other peoples' business when it distracts them from hearing the proceedings. You use the Constitution of the United States to justify your rude behavior; I wonder if any of the founding fathers brought their young children to the Constitutional Convention.
We have been going to these meeting a hell of a lot longer than you. We have NEVER had a problem with any PD members at the meetings. One would think a scene or not if there is an issue the PD would tend to it. Are you saying the PD isn't up to the job???
You have heard a young child making noise on the tape so????? That must be our Emily Flynn. I see. We have never been asked to leave by anyone Mrs.K and from what I read you don't seem to attend the very meetings that you state our girls on unruly at.
"You use the Constitution of the United States to justify your rude behavior;" What? Please Mrs. K go into more detail. Rude behavior? Because we to not see eye to eye with your way of thinking? Because I will not just let you speak CRAP about my family and I? I do not have a right to DEFEND your SPIN??? That makes me rude? Again I'll say. More people read these post than respond. Most can see what you are doing.
All spin.
"I wonder if any of the founding fathers brought their young children to the Constitutional Convention."
My goodness. City meeting, convention. Whatever. If Steve and I are bad people for taking the girls to city meetings then we are doing pretty darned good for ourselves. Please find something else to bark at me about. This is growing old.
Shannon Flynn
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ShannonFlynn
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MrsK2009 wrote: I didn't have to spin anything; those are his own words. And I've actually been away from the computer all day long.
Having our oldest at the meetings is a way to educate. The meetings are good for her schooling.
Fair enough. The younger child? What about her?
Steve has strong views on government, yes. As do I. We do not HATE all government as a whole...
Sure sounds like it. Maybe to you, someone that can not look past what they think and feel.
You seem to be able to dictate my life...
What? Please tell me I don't need to reword this for you? It's very clear by what you type and how you type it. It's time one should get a life.
...but will not sit down and talk with me. While you are free to spread misinformation, I am free to defend my family and myself. .
I would sit down and talk with you in a public place with other people present, but never on the phone. About the misinformation, I copy and paste quotes.
Am I missing something here? Table or phone both still can be recorded, yes? Copy and paste all you wish. Just copy ALL of what is said and not just bits and peaces. I have noticed you and another are good for that.
I am not running for office. I'm a much better hot headed activist then a politician. You can bank on that.
You don't strike me as a one-and-done type. I wouldn't make a good politician either; too opinionated and stubborn.
I don't care how I STRIKE ya darling. I know what I want and what I do. Don't need some Mrs. K telling me how to do it.
You must not have been at last night's meeting. Everyone in our roll seemed to ENJOY both our girls. Just ask Mr. S. He had to set with a number of young men under the age of 13.
No more games Mrs. K Steve may play but you are indeed getting old. Start going to EVERY MEETING and then pin my girls for how they are in the meetings. I havent seen you there in a while.
Shannon Flynn
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steveflynn64
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Were you at the meeting last night Mrs. K. My youngest was. With some governments in general, our rights are being violated so that is not hype.
Your attitude towards my youngest, however, is Chicken Little for sure.
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Fisher 2009
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I need a drink and a smoke newszap has done it!
 EF
Last edited on Wed Feb 3rd, 2010 01:58 pm by Fisher 2009
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MrsK2009
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I never mentioned the chief and officers. But just think what a scene you could make if they told you to leave the meeting. A constitutional scholar like yourself should have a lot of fun with that. I have heard a young child making noise on the videotape. If I can hear it on video, then that means you don't always take her outside. It becomes other peoples' business when it distracts them from hearing the proceedings. You use the Constitution of the United States to justify your rude behavior; I wonder if any of the founding fathers brought their young children to the Constitutional Convention.
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steveflynn64
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What do you mean the younger child K? Since the chief and officers have told
us all is well, it's none of your business. Politicians do not have to compromise.
Shannon was cordial to those who extended to her the same courtesy. Ron
Paul is stubborn and opinionated. He doesn't bend to voters who
want the feds to violate the Constitution and he keeps getting re-elected. So is he a bad listener and rotten congressman?
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DBuell
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" I myself have restored a property that close friends of mine bought and evicted tweekers."
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You do realize, that the way many of these Social Host/Unruly Gathering ordinances are written, your friends would also be fined as the owners of the property. And that orange sticker would have to stay there for the 180 days, regardless. How would that affect finding new renters?
Hopefully, Christa's aren't written like that.
Good discussion! Disagreements without attacks.
Joe
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Sure they COULD be, but the key word here is COULD! I have never seen a property owner yet who has not first been informed the local law enfocement as to what is going on in their rental and if the property owners are going along with it then they are fined or worse. Once we got control of the property, evicting the tweekers was done withing 48 hours! Since they were up all night anyway, I told them that packing thier stuff should not take long! Pun intended!
I was so nervous walking through there that I wore a lot of protective clothing, heavy leather gloves, steel toed work boots double leather made with soles puncture resistant, etc.....
The sheer amount of broken glass from LIQUOR bottles was amazing! Broken crack pipes lined the edges of the floor and hypodermic syringes were everywhere!
We had so many neighbors come to us while we were cleaning up that just wanted to say "thank you" for getting rid of this eyesore. Then a curious thing began to happen, people started to repair their window and door screens, paint their houses, clean up the yards, get rid of the trash and generally improve the condition of their property without being told to or codes being enforced!
WOW! A Win Win situation for everyone!
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MrsK2009
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I didn't have to spin anything; those are his own words. And I've actually been away from the computer all day long.
Having our oldest at the meetings is a way to educate. The meetings are good for her schooling.
Fair enough. The younger child?
Steve has strong views on government, yes. As do I. We do not HATE all government as a whole...
Sure sounds like it.
You seem to be able to dictate my life...
What?
...but will not sit down and talk with me. While you are free to spread misinformation, I am free to defend my family and myself. .
I would sit down and talk with you in a public place with other people present, but never on the phone. About the misinformation, I copy and paste quotes.
I am not running for office. I'm a much better hot headed activist then a politician. You can bank on that.
You don't strike me as a one-and-done type. I wouldn't make a good politician either; too opinionated and stubborn.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31st, 2010 07:54 pm |
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ShannonFlynn
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MrsK2009 wrote: steveflynn64 wrote: You are lost again Mrs. K. I hammer on criminal government. I praise the
the founding fathers for setting up an excellent system for government and
curse those who violate the Constitution and ruin it. Any more lies you care to
tell about me K? You lose the debate so you falsely attack me. I took an oath
to support and defend the U.S. Constitution as a soldier and civilian employee.
Then I took and oath to do the same to the U.S. Constitution and the Arizona
Constitution as a National Guardsman and teacher. These laws would not be
supported by the founding fathers and we have a right to alter or abolish
governments that destroy us. Read the documents and get a clue.
Oh and forget about waiting to see how bad it is K. This ordinance should never
see the light of day. I'll bet it is dead already. Remember, all it takes is one
good lawsuit and if the city passes it, they deserve be sued. Listen to jamp,
they can enforce the laws already on the books.
Notice to the voters of Apache Junction: be sure to remember this next time this man's wife runs for office. This is the attitude that they have toward anyone who disagrees with them. There is nothing more I need to say.
Mrs. K,
You seem to think you know so much about my family and I. First Steve and I can afford a babysitter because he is a teacher. Do you know what teachers make? Having our oldest at the meetings is a way to educate. The meetings are good for her schooling.
Then your commits about Steve hating all government and how bad he is to be a teacher and taking pay for doing so. The man has been teaching for over 20 years. Loves what he does and is good at it. State pay or not. He works with inner city students and has been teaching them at the same school all these years. That says something for the man.
Steve has strong views on government, yes. As do I. We do not HATE all government as a whole but feel we make educated choices and thought processes due to attending meetings, reading and different news sources ect.
Now you say I'm running for office. You seem to be able to dictate my life but will not sit down and talk with me. While you are free to spread misinformation, I am free to defend my family and myself. .
Debate is a wonderful thing Mrs. K. I applaud people to disagree with me, to do something, go to meetings. Be heard. You are right Mrs. there is nothing more you need to say. People can and do read these blogs. Most can read your spin. I am always open to speaking with people. The readers that PM Steve and I understand that.
Oh and no Mrs. K I am not running for office. I'm a much better hot headed activist then a politician. You can bank on that.
It's a wonderful day today, go outside. Get away from the computer and smile. Life is good!
Shannon Flynn
Oh and if you ever do want to talk give me a call 480 298 3870. You'll understand I'll ask your name so I know who I am talking with. 
Last edited on Sun Jan 31st, 2010 08:04 pm by ShannonFlynn
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31st, 2010 02:55 am |
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MrsK2009
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steveflynn64 wrote: You are lost again Mrs. K. I hammer on criminal government. I praise the
the founding fathers for setting up an excellent system for government and
curse those who violate the Constitution and ruin it. Any more lies you care to
tell about me K? You lose the debate so you falsely attack me. I took an oath
to support and defend the U.S. Constitution as a soldier and civilian employee.
Then I took and oath to do the same to the U.S. Constitution and the Arizona
Constitution as a National Guardsman and teacher. These laws would not be
supported by the founding fathers and we have a right to alter or abolish
governments that destroy us. Read the documents and get a clue.
Oh and forget about waiting to see how bad it is K. This ordinance should never
see the light of day. I'll bet it is dead already. Remember, all it takes is one
good lawsuit and if the city passes it, they deserve be sued. Listen to jamp,
they can enforce the laws already on the books.
Notice to the voters of Apache Junction: be sure to remember this next time this man's wife runs for office. This is the attitude that they have toward anyone who disagrees with them. There is nothing more I need to say.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31st, 2010 02:10 am |
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MrsK2009
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The existing laws that finally sent him to jail were related to theft. I can surmise that contributing to the delinquency of minors is no longer prosecuted. This guy is a (manure) magnet, yet none of it ever seemed to stick to him. One of his girlfriends got so nutty that she killed her own child. He preyed on young single mothers, and would move them in with him. CPS removed more than one child from his home. A few years after the child was killed there was a fatal shooting in a motel room that he was renting (which he helped to orchestrate, it's just that the one who was supposed to be shot took the gun away from the one who was supposed to do the shooting and changed the outcome).
Seriously, I don't know why something wasn't done. Maybe someone should ask the AJPD, because they certainly knew him. Perhaps it was a lack of leadership from the top?
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30th, 2010 06:17 pm |
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ajBookchin
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MrsK2009 wrote: ... There are people in this town who think nothing of providing drugs and alcohol to minors; one in particular that I am aware of kind of comes and goes between prison sentences. This individual has also been involved in at least two crimes that involved the death of someone (one a child, the other an adult). His property was a gathering place of all kinds of lost souls. And it was a 24/7 crime scene. I have been told by people who would know that there were things going on there that he managed to escape being charged with.
...
MrsK...
Would you have any insight as to why the individual you are referring to was not impacted by existing laws?
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30th, 2010 06:01 pm |
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25th Post |
steveflynn64
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You are lost again Mrs. K. I hammer on criminal government. I praise the
the founding fathers for setting up an excellent system for government and
curse those who violate the Constitution and ruin it. Any more lies you care to
tell about me K? You lose the debate so you falsely attack me. I took an oath
to support and defend the U.S. Constitution as a soldier and civilian employee.
Then I took and oath to do the same to the U.S. Constitution and the Arizona
Constitution as a National Guardsman and teacher. These laws would not be
supported by the founding fathers and we have a right to alter or abolish
governments that destroy us. Read the documents and get a clue.
Oh and forget about waiting to see how bad it is K. This ordinance should never
see the light of day. I'll bet it is dead already. Remember, all it takes is one
good lawsuit and if the city passes it, they deserve be sued. Listen to jamp,
they can enforce the laws already on the books.
Last edited on Sat Jan 30th, 2010 06:08 pm by steveflynn64
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30th, 2010 03:55 pm |
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26th Post |
dzrtrat67
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MrsK2009 wrote: How about let's wait until the proposed ordinance is drafted, and then worry about how it's worded?
Orrrrr..... how about we just use the existing laws that are already in place? ie....underage drinking, contributing to the deliquency of a minor, disturbing the peace, etc. etc.
It's illegal to flag the homes of convicted sex offenders, but you see nothing wrong with flagging the home of someone who has friends over from time to time??!
(I know that's not what you think MrsK....just playing devil's advocate)
Joe
personally, I see nothing wrong with miners drinking...they work hard in the mines all day and deserve a beer! ;-)
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30th, 2010 02:20 pm |
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27th Post |
MrsK2009
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Starlit wrote:
As to drafting the law first, that's a daft idea. The more that they work on it, the more it will be seen as accepted. Typically, MRS K that's how things are sneaked through.
That's how all laws are made here, Starlit. They are proposed, reviewed and revised before they are presented.
I don't know how anyone can make any thoughtful comments on this proposed law until we actually see a draft of it. You do not seem to understand the gravity of the situation; just ask any parent who has had a teenager who got caught up in the local scene. There are people in this town who think nothing of providing drugs and alcohol to minors; one in particular that I am aware of kind of comes and goes between prison sentences. This individual has also been involved in at least two crimes that involved the death of someone (one a child, the other an adult). His property was a gathering place of all kinds of lost souls. And it was a 24/7 crime scene. I have been told by people who would know that there were things going on there that he managed to escape being charged with.
If you want to be an apologist for these types of people, go right ahead. See how many votes that gets for your hubby.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30th, 2010 06:34 am |
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28th Post |
J&JFarms
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We don't have the acoustic triangulation system that can pinpoint the origin of a shot and therefore we request that people report these types of activities.
I agree with you Starlit, this new proposed regulation is troublesome and difficult to enforce. It is missing a couple of key elements, one of which is probable cause, the other is a right to face one's accuser. The orange sticker...pfft.
I promise not to have kegers for 15 year-olds if the nosey neighbor patrol, lead by Comrade, promises to stop trespassing and looking over my fence.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30th, 2010 06:04 am |
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29th Post |
Starlit
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How about the police in Apache Junction doing something with regards to "Shannon's Law"?
New Year's Eve, somewhere in an Apache Junction street (I won't say where) fire arms were heard going off. (No, it was not simply fire crackers.)
Kids or animals could get hurt. In fact, anyone could by a stray bullet or two, or three...
Whilst I care about everyone, the so-called law you intend to pass is just ridiculous. The police have enough on their hands as it is. They did nothing about this matter of fire arms.
As to drafting the law first, that's a daft idea. The more that they work on it, the more it will be seen as accepted. Typically, MRS K that's how things are sneaked through.
So, enough of the "tough" looking team photo shoots in The Independent (last week's edition) where even a police is hiding behind his ultra-cool pair of sunglasses and get to real police work! There's more than enough out here for the police to do. No need to create a bigger work load for them all.
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon's_law_(Arizona]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon's_law_(Arizona[/url])
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29th, 2010 10:02 pm |
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30th Post |
MrsK2009
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And you don't think it's inappropriate for adults to host underage drinking parties?
How about let's wait until the proposed ordinance is drafted, and then worry about how it's worded?
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29th, 2010 09:56 pm |
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31st Post |
Fisher 2009
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Mrs K
The proposed ordinance is not about consumption ! It is about inappropriate hosting !
It is going to be a legal quagmire at best.
EF
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29th, 2010 02:00 pm |
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32nd Post |
MrsK2009
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Well, I would expect that kind of logic from a guy who constantly hammers on the government, yet happily draws his paycheck from the public school system.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29th, 2010 12:53 pm |
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steveflynn64
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The same people who wish that the city would pass draconian ordinances
to fight teen drinking support a failed drug war that violates the rights of
the citizens. Elementary Mrs. K., elementary.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29th, 2010 04:30 am |
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34th Post |
MrsK2009
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What does this have to do with underage kids consuming alcohol?
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29th, 2010 02:45 am |
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steveflynn64
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http://www.infowars.com/how-weed-won-the-west-a-film-by-kevin-booth/
So a man who has a license to sell weed in Cali was arrested for doing the
same in NJ. Guess what? NJ just legalized medical marijuana. Just like
the state sovereignty movement, this freedom trend is unstoppable. Coleman
can spare me the temparance lecture. I don't use illegal drugs, but I am sure having
some beer tomorrow. A politician who votes against our founding documents
is ten times worse than a pot head. Some are even worse than drunk drivers
and that takes some doing.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28th, 2010 08:16 am |
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36th Post |
Fisher 2009
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Guys,
Why don't you put the blame where it belongs?
Douglas Coleman is the man behind MS Christa Rizzi. See the article at the bottom of this blog. He had a glint in his eye as she spoke at Call to the Public.
He's again using fear of (in this case) the evil demon kids and their reefer madness to scare the public into what amounts to an attack on our Freedom to Assemble.
Don't let Doug Coleman win! Fear is Douglas Coleman's weapon of choice whether it's me, Elliott E. Fisher or some other battle going on within Doug's skull.
What's next, will it be Dancing and Singing?
It's time for Term Limits to get rid of this Crony Council.
EF
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24th, 2010 04:23 am |
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37th Post |
dzrtrat67
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Last edited on Sun Jan 24th, 2010 11:16 am by dzrtrat67
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24th, 2010 01:46 am |
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nicotaijulo
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Not to get completely off subject but I believe landlords/rental property owners out here should take a long look at how they conduct business ! Far too many will rent without a criminal background check and employment verification. I am not talking about a credit check ; even criminals can have good credit.
I wanted (and still do) to start a small business to do background checks for rental property owners out here but have had little success. I charge a lot less than most ( because I am local ) and am very thorough . But I get many responses of property owners who 'want to be able to trust people' . Well given the area , those days are over !
I have heard too many stories of how they trusted their prospective tenants ; only to be stiffed rent , spend thousands in repairs and court costs.
Everywhere else I have lived in this country requires background checks in order to rent a property. And the fee gets passed on to the applicant . No cost to the owner.
A lot of (meaning not ALL) rental property owners are naive and need to wise up.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23rd, 2010 06:13 pm |
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39th Post |
dzrtrat67
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We are not talking about policing everyone in AJ! But we have ALL seen those attractive nuisances that are constantly being monitored by the police.
If they are already constantly being monitored, then how would these ordinances help at all ? Laws are already in place.
Not sure how this thread detoured from house party ordinances to tweeker issues, but I'll go with the flow.
I'd be curious to hear from Concerned4AJ, if he's still here, about how many raucous house parties he's busted where Meth is prevalent. I suspect it's low.
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" I myself have restored a property that close friends of mine bought and evicted tweekers."
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You do realize, that the way many of these Social Host/Unruly Gathering ordinances are written, your friends would also be fined as the owners of the property. And that orange sticker would have to stay there for the 180 days, regardless. How would that affect finding new renters?
Hopefully, Christa's aren't written like that.
Good discussion! Disagreements without attacks.
Joe
Last edited on Sat Jan 23rd, 2010 06:57 pm by dzrtrat67
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23rd, 2010 03:52 pm |
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40th Post |
DBuell
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J&JFarms wrote: ajBookchin wrote: DBuell wrote:
... the ordinance pertains to getting a handle on a situation that is getting out of control when no adults are present and the children are allowed to do whatever they want! ...
but...
EV Editor wrote:
"It doesn’t appear from looking at the last three years of call-outs that Apache Junction is a problem area," he said during a Jan. 12 phone interview. "There was only one location that came up on the radar screen more than once. This does not appear to be a problem area in the city of Apache Junction at this time."
So, it begs the question: why?
Oh I can't wait for Comrade and his brigade of sue-happy litigious idiots to try this.
everyone you need a sign that says "No Trespassing".
I agree, but only those who actually pay attention to it will respect the LAW! Too many tweekers know that using meth and drinking at the same time, well meth will erase the effects of alcohol intoxication within a short period of time. We are going to need to rid AJ of the nuisances where we have locations where people are up during all times of the day and night with people coming and going at all hours! I still repair or replace Air Conditioning systems and heat pumps that are vandalised for their copper and I also know members of the White Hat Society who work with troubled teens who get themselves in trouble with drugs and alcohol.
We are not talking about policing everyone in AJ! But we have ALL seen those attractive nuisances that are constantly being monitored by the police. I myself have restored a property that close friends of mine bought and evicted tweekers. Believe me, there were syringes and other types of drug paraphernalia all over the place including crack pipes AND large bottles of ALCOHOL! So I didn't just pull my attitude out of my hat!
This particular address was under surveillance and a lot of those coming and going at all hours of the day and night were TEENAGERS, many I have met who when confronted with punishemnt, jail time and community service have seen the light and will change their ways. If this means that they become responsible adults, hooray!
Drug and alcohol abuse destroys lives and dreams. I have seen it first hand! There is a lot more to this issue and what we have discussed just scratches the surface! Our problems are not nearly as bad as they used to be but that is because of ENFORCEMENT, NOT TOLERANCE!
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23rd, 2010 05:22 am |
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41st Post |
J&JFarms
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ajBookchin wrote: DBuell wrote:
... the ordinance pertains to getting a handle on a situation that is getting out of control when no adults are present and the children are allowed to do whatever they want! ...
but...
EV Editor wrote:
"It doesn’t appear from looking at the last three years of call-outs that Apache Junction is a problem area," he said during a Jan. 12 phone interview. "There was only one location that came up on the radar screen more than once. This does not appear to be a problem area in the city of Apache Junction at this time."
So, it begs the question: why?
Oh I can't wait for Comrade and his brigade of sue-happy litigious idiots to try this.
everyone you need a sign that says "No Trespassing".
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23rd, 2010 04:23 am |
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42nd Post |
ajBookchin
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DBuell wrote:
... the ordinance pertains to getting a handle on a situation that is getting out of control when no adults are present and the children are allowed to do whatever they want! ...
but...
EV Editor wrote:
"It doesn’t appear from looking at the last three years of call-outs that Apache Junction is a problem area," he said during a Jan. 12 phone interview. "There was only one location that came up on the radar screen more than once. This does not appear to be a problem area in the city of Apache Junction at this time."
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23rd, 2010 04:09 am |
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43rd Post |
DBuell
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nicotaijulo wrote: Once again , politicians are only targeting the small problems . Sure teen drinking is a problem . But what about drug use ??
It seems counter-productive to approach one problem and not the other. I and many others have inquired about harder punishment on those who sell and use hard drugs ( meth, heroine etc.). The penalty for first-time users is a joke. Even many repeat offenders get a slap on the wrist i.e. probation.
We spend tons of money on DUI task forces and check points on holidays , yet the drugs go unchecked. No meth/crime sweeps in the drug infested areas of the east valley. No methlab task force. Nothing.
Teen drinking is always going to be problem. Society pushes children too hard to grow up yet even when they turn 18 and they are allowed to work, drive, and vote , but drinking is still illegal. I have often felt that the age for driving and voting should also be 21 , since it has been scientifically proved that the human brain is not fully developed until approx. age 24 yrs of age. We all worry about our teens . I have a 19 yr. old who does not use drugs but does drink on occasion when he visits his father back east. He does not drink while he is here , he knows and respects the rules.
But I have to honest about this issue. I would not be nearly as angry if I found him using alchohol , than I would if he tried using meth.
With all the meth/heroine use and sales , it would seem that parents would be worried about that problem as well. Certain politicians would have you not concentrate on the problem of hard drug use (in all age groups) but on the growth and revenue of the East Valley. But if you 'turn a blind eye' on the situation it is not going to go away. It will just get worse.
And I agree with you about teen drinking and how this is not as bad as meth use, but once teens start drinking, they have already tried drugs so I believe that these two issues are closely related. The slap on the wrist approach is and has failed. And although I find no comfort in creating laws and regulations that try to make up for a lack of morality in some modern parents, I can still live with it if it can be used as a tool to control a public nuisance.
We all know we are not talking about the teen who has a glass of wine at dinner with the permission of the parents, but the ordinance pertains to getting a handle on a situation that is getting out of control when no adults are present and the children are allowed to do whatever they want! This is the hard look we have to take at the fruit that ripened on the tree of "if it feels good do it" liberalism.
We also know that we must have the revenue from economic growth to fund our law enforcement efforts to get these problems under control. When our border patrol agents are not prosecuted, like Ramos and Compean were, for shooting an illegal alien drug smuggler bringing illegal drugs into the country and instead are rewarded with job security and performance bonuses while not having to bow to political correctness, then we will make progress.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 22nd, 2010 09:09 pm |
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44th Post |
nicotaijulo
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Once again , politicians are only targeting the small problems . Sure teen drinking is a problem . But what about drug use ??
It seems counter-productive to approach one problem and not the other. I and many others have inquired about harder punishment on those who sell and use hard drugs ( meth, heroine etc.). The penalty for first-time users is a joke. Even many repeat offenders get a slap on the wrist i.e. probation.
We spend tons of money on DUI task forces and check points on holidays , yet the drugs go unchecked. No meth/crime sweeps in the drug infested areas of the east valley. No methlab task force. Nothing.
Teen drinking is always going to be problem. Society pushes children too hard to grow up yet even when they turn 18 and they are allowed to work, drive, and vote , but drinking is still illegal. I have often felt that the age for driving and voting should also be 21 , since it has been scientifically proved that the human brain is not fully developed until approx. age 24 yrs of age. We all worry about our teens . I have a 19 yr. old who does not use drugs but does drink on occasion when he visits his father back east. He does not drink while he is here , he knows and respects the rules.
But I have to honest about this issue. I would not be nearly as angry if I found him using alchohol , than I would if he tried using meth.
With all the meth/heroine use and sales , it would seem that parents would be worried about that problem as well. Certain politicians would have you not concentrate on the problem of hard drug use (in all age groups) but on the growth and revenue of the East Valley. But if you 'turn a blind eye' on the situation it is not going to go away. It will just get worse.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 22nd, 2010 08:23 pm |
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45th Post |
steveflynn64
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Exactly. Some cities do this and get away with it for now. The pendulum,
however, seems to be swinging back towards liberty. I sure hope so, but
a fight of some kind is coming nevertheless.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 22nd, 2010 08:07 pm |
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46th Post |
dzrtrat67
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While I agree these should NOT pass constitutional muster, a simple google for "Unruly gathering social host ordinance" reveals an alarming number of towns doing this exact thing. Most of them seem to be college towns, but not all.
I think there's one case on it's way to the Supreme Court, but can't find at the moment.
Joe
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| Posted: Fri Jan 22nd, 2010 07:52 pm |
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47th Post |
steveflynn64
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This ordinance will not pass constitutional muster. I'm going to help put this
MF under the bus where it belongs. The IJ or Goldwater Institute can probably
kill this thing easy. McCain-Fiengold was just put under because it violates
the First Amendment. This violates the Fifth as one cannot confront his or
her accuser. People are getting tired of ordinances that violate our rights
and the flimsy, lame-a$% excuses for doing it. Why not just make slavery
legal again and make some justification for it?
Oh, and if the drug war is worth saving, then tell it to the
CIA. Their drug laden planes keep crashing south of the border. This has happened
time and time
again and is documented. Hell, the first big drug dealing government was the UK
under Victoria.
"The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false face for the urge to rule it.”
Mencken
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| Posted: Fri Jan 22nd, 2010 07:49 pm |
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48th Post |
ShannonFlynn
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This ordinance will not pass constitutional muster. I'm going to help put this
MF under the bus where it belongs. The IJ or Goldwater Institute can probably
kill this thing easy. McCain-Fiengold was just put under because it violates
the First Amendment. This violates the Fifth as one cannot confront his or
her accuser. People are getting tired of ordinances that violate our rights
and the flimsy, lame-a$% excuses for doing it. Why not just make slavery
legal again and make some justification for it?
Oh, and if the drug war is worth saving, then tell it to the
CIA. Their drug laden planes keep crashing south of the border. This has happened
time and time
again and is documented. Hell, the first big drug dealing government was the UK
under Victoria.
"The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false face for the urge to rule it.”
Mencken
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| Posted: Fri Jan 22nd, 2010 05:24 am |
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49th Post |
DBuell
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dzrtrat67 wrote: DBuell wrote: . If there is no punishment or penalty at an early age, then we will wind up with liberally raised dysfunctional adults that will be society's responsibility to take care of!
Hit them and hit them hard! Punishment and jail time for minors will show them that there are consequences to innapropriate actions!
Unless I missed something, neither of the proposed ordinances have much at all to do with punishment of minors. In fact, I didn't see anything close to that mentioned anywhere..... (clue me in if I missed that somewhere)
They're simply unnecessary tattle-tale style ordinances that attempt to duplicate laws that are already in place and have been for a long time. In my lifetime, it's ALWAYS been illegal, with penalties, to supply kids with booze. Too loud of parties can and are already cited under disturbing the peace laws. How are either of these ordinances going to change that? (Other than making it even easier for neighbors who don't get along to mess with each other.)
One thing I hadn't considered earlier, was that, now with the boats and rvs safely hidden away so as not to offend anyone, it will make it much easier to see the bright orange stickers and therefore, the places that know how to throw a good party! (tongue in cheek)
Joe
I'm hoping that the ordinances will be written to include punishment for breaking the law. I'm not willing to just give up and say the war on drugs is worthless and not working. It would work if it was really enforced! But Stupid liberal policies of how we deal with illegal drugs are cutting off any progress because of the soft cell approach.
Medical marijuana is just that, Medical and not an excuse for legalisation.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21st, 2010 08:32 pm |
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50th Post |
steveflynn64
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How do the police decide if I allowed minors to drink on my land?
If they hid behind the bushes in my back yard and somehow kept quiet, I might
not even know they were on my property. This is a farce just like prohibition
and the war on drugs. There was a spike in the murder rates during prohibition
and a fall when it ended. The rates increased sharply again with Nixon's
war on drugs. It is all too easy to blame guns for this instead of failed policies.
Mark my words. The drug war is failing and medical marijuana is being legalized
in more states and the trend continues. The police should deal with these
problems within the confines of the Bill of Rights. I have a feeling that the
police will be too busy to deal with a few tipsy teens who are walking the streets
or hanging out by a desert fire. Just wait until the depression goes full tilt boogie.
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