| Posted: Wed Mar 10th, 2010 02:27 am |
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51st Post |
Please Vote
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DYSART USD #89 QUESTION
87% (14 of 16) precincts reporting
Vote for 1
EV VOTES
TOTAL VOTES
% VOTES
- BUDGET INCREASE, YES*
9052
11862
50.47
- BUDGET INCREASE, NO
11171
11643
49.53
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10th, 2010 02:07 am |
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52nd Post |
Trophywife
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ItsAllAConspiracy wrote: Stay tuned folks!
Come on! Let's see those results!
Results
It looks good for Dysart. The early ballots are not showing an overwhelming majority of "no" votes which is probably the seniors. This could happen for you guys.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10th, 2010 02:01 am |
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53rd Post |
| Posted: Wed Mar 10th, 2010 01:20 am |
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54th Post |
cindisue_g
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Art Vandelay wrote: cindisue_g wrote: Art Vandelay wrote: You obviously have never been in a high school classroom.
Don't place a bet on that. I've seen how the children treat the teachers and how the teachers treat the children as well. I've seen some really good teachers and some that I don't feel should have jobs.
Teachers should be held accountable and the best way to hold them accountable is by how their students do. I think it is abominable that when a district has layoffs, they lay off the teachers that have less time in, when in many cases they are much, much better teachers than those that have 15 or 20 years.
Teachers with less than 5 years experience are still learning and honing their craft. Research will support this. Also many teachers leave the profession between 1-5 years in the classroom. Often times this is because they realize teaching is a hell of a lot harder than they thought. There are teachers who should find other careers no doubt, but basing everything on how well students achieve is not good. Should it play a part? perhaps. There should a variety of factors used to determine a teachers effectiveness. There are many things a teacher cannot control. The things they can they should. When teachers care more about their students grades and abilities than the students themselves or their parents there is something wrong, and teachers should not be punished for it. And who are you to determine who has a job? What qualifies YOU to be an evaluator of teachers? 
Who am I to determine who has a job - well, I guess it is because I am a taxpayer who has an opinion - I guess I could ask the same question of you. You don't know what I do now or what I did in my career, so you really don't know what my qualifications are.
Teachers are paid to teach and that is how their effectiveness should be determined. How exactly would you hold them accountable - by their tenure? Ever think that that is the problem. I love it when teacher say there are things they can't control - then why is it in many underprivileged areas schools are producing above normal standard students - they don't have more books, probably have less. Supplies, no they don't have more. Doesn't it make you wonder. What they have are teachers that have figured out how to teach students, how to keep them interested and how to challenge them. Something I afraid many teachers have not learned. By holding teachers accountable by the scores of their students will garner us students that will leave the system and be an asset to the country. Funny, some on here are saying to vote yes for the children, but when it comes down to it, I guessing it is for the teachers definitely not for the children that they are asking for that yes vote!
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10th, 2010 12:35 am |
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55th Post |
Trophywife
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nose tradamous wrote: What is the total number of households/voters eligible to vote in this Dysart levy? What will be the final total tally of actual voting Participation be? What might those individuals that do not get out and vote be doing that is more important? The list of reasons may be very interesting. I know one thing they might be doing! We will see shortly.
I think the problem is "registered" voters. I wonder how many Dysart parents are registered voters. I don't think they had the opportunity to register to vote since last November. So If they weren't registered then, they can't vote now (I think). I have never met a senior who is not a registered voter and it was a mail in ballot so I think the senior vote is going to be big. But, that's no excuse for the Dysart parents. If they lose, maybe they will see the value in being a registered voter.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10th, 2010 12:18 am |
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Art Vandelay
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cindisue_g wrote: Art Vandelay wrote: You obviously have never been in a high school classroom.
Don't place a bet on that. I've seen how the children treat the teachers and how the teachers treat the children as well. I've seen some really good teachers and some that I don't feel should have jobs.
Teachers should be held accountable and the best way to hold them accountable is by how their students do. I think it is abominable that when a district has layoffs, they lay off the teachers that have less time in, when in many cases they are much, much better teachers than those that have 15 or 20 years.
Teachers with less than 5 years experience are still learning and honing their craft. Research will support this. Also many teachers leave the profession between 1-5 years in the classroom. Often times this is because they realize teaching is a hell of a lot harder than they thought. There are teachers who should find other careers no doubt, but basing everything on how well students achieve is not good. Should it play a part? perhaps. There should a variety of factors used to determine a teachers effectiveness. There are many things a teacher cannot control. The things they can they should. When teachers care more about their students grades and abilities than the students themselves or their parents there is something wrong, and teachers should not be punished for it. And who are you to determine who has a job? What qualifies YOU to be an evaluator of teachers?
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10th, 2010 12:10 am |
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57th Post |
nose tradamous
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What is the total number of households/voters eligible to vote in this Dysart levy? What will be the final total tally of actual voting Participation be? What might those individuals that do not get out and vote be doing that is more important? The list of reasons may be very interesting. I know one thing they might be doing! We will see shortly.
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Trophywife
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This election is 100% in the hands of the parents. If they want this, they will make the effort to vote (it's not too late!). If they don't care about the teachers, then it will fail. Last edited on Tue Mar 9th, 2010 11:46 pm by Trophywife
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cindisue_g
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Art Vandelay wrote: You obviously have never been in a high school classroom.
Don't place a bet on that. I've seen how the children treat the teachers and how the teachers treat the children as well. I've seen some really good teachers and some that I don't feel should have jobs.
Teachers should be held accountable and the best way to hold them accountable is by how their students do. I think it is abominable that when a district has layoffs, they lay off the teachers that have less time in, when in many cases they are much, much better teachers than those that have 15 or 20 years.
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Art Vandelay
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cindisue_g wrote: Art Vandelay wrote: ItsAllAConspiracy wrote: cindisue_g wrote: andihav wrote:
As a former real estate agent, I can assure you that 90% of the time the first question people ask when looking at a property is "How is the school district here?"
If this is the case, then we are screwed even before the vote. I think Dysart should do what some other districts in the US have done....fire all of those teachers whose students are not performing up to standards.
Yes! Especially those who have parents that don't speak English!
Yeah, Right, for sure its the d**n teachers fault. If students cant perform its always the educators fault, never the parents. Just remember you get what you pay for
Yes, I think we know we get what we pay for. And if you had ever been on this site before, you will see that I feel teachers (let me re-phrase that) good teachers should get a large increase in pay.
I feel that if the majority of the students in a classroom are not performing up to standards, then yes it is the teachers fault. If there are a few children here and there that are sub-standard, then of course it is not the teachers fault.
Teachers are paid to teach, if they can't teach so that the children can learn, then why on Gods green earth are they in that profession?
And just so you don't get too upset, I have said over and over on the topic of education that the parents need to be involved in their children's education - something that I feel is few and far between.
You obviously have never been in a high school classroom.
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cindisue_g
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Art Vandelay wrote: ItsAllAConspiracy wrote: cindisue_g wrote: andihav wrote:
As a former real estate agent, I can assure you that 90% of the time the first question people ask when looking at a property is "How is the school district here?"
If this is the case, then we are screwed even before the vote. I think Dysart should do what some other districts in the US have done....fire all of those teachers whose students are not performing up to standards.
Yes! Especially those who have parents that don't speak English!
Yeah, Right, for sure its the d**n teachers fault. If students cant perform its always the educators fault, never the parents. Just remember you get what you pay for
Yes, I think we know we get what we pay for. And if you had ever been on this site before, you will see that I feel teachers (let me re-phrase that) good teachers should get a large increase in pay.
I feel that if the majority of the students in a classroom are not performing up to standards, then yes it is the teachers fault. If there are a few children here and there that are sub-standard, then of course it is not the teachers fault.
Teachers are paid to teach, if they can't teach so that the children can learn, then why on Gods green earth are they in that profession?
And just so you don't get too upset, I have said over and over on the topic of education that the parents need to be involved in their children's education - something that I feel is few and far between.
Last edited on Tue Mar 9th, 2010 10:26 pm by cindisue_g
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Art Vandelay
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ItsAllAConspiracy wrote: cindisue_g wrote: andihav wrote:
As a former real estate agent, I can assure you that 90% of the time the first question people ask when looking at a property is "How is the school district here?"
If this is the case, then we are screwed even before the vote. I think Dysart should do what some other districts in the US have done....fire all of those teachers whose students are not performing up to standards.
Yes! Especially those who have parents that don't speak English!
Yeah, Right, for sure its the d**n teachers fault. If students cant perform its always the educators fault, never the parents. Just remember you get what you pay for
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ItsAllAConspiracy
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cindisue_g wrote: andihav wrote:
As a former real estate agent, I can assure you that 90% of the time the first question people ask when looking at a property is "How is the school district here?"
If this is the case, then we are screwed even before the vote. I think Dysart should do what some other districts in the US have done....fire all of those teachers whose students are not performing up to standards.
Yes! Especially those who have parents that don't speak English!
Last edited on Tue Mar 9th, 2010 10:10 pm by ItsAllAConspiracy
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cindisue_g
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andihav wrote:
As a former real estate agent, I can assure you that 90% of the time the first question people ask when looking at a property is "How is the school district here?"
If this is the case, then we are screwed even before the vote. I think Dysart should do what some other districts in the US have done....fire all of those teachers whose students are not performing up to standards.
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Trophywife
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andihav wrote:
As a former real estate agent, I can assure you that 90% of the time the first question people ask when looking at a property is "How is the school district here?"
I doubt that. A huge percentage of the population of Surprised are retirees. Why would they ask about the school district? Another large percentage is not the demographic that cares that much about school districts or they wouldn't be looking in Surprise. 
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lotfotl
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gee, I always thought it was "what are the property taxes here"?
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andihav
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As a former real estate agent, I can assure you that 90% of the time the first question people ask when looking at a property is "How is the school district here?"
Property values WILL DECREASE if the override does not go through. Your property taxes will not technically go up, because your home value will have DECREASED!! You think there are lots of empty houses out there now...
If your home mortgage is upside down now, imagine what it will be like when people STOP moving here!!!!
We have miles of undeveloped land nearby. Hopefully, these areas will be developed soon so that there are hundreds if not thousands of new jobs in OUR area! These businesses will bring a large amount of revenue to our cities!! Large Companies who look to relocate to an area do intensive research on everything ... including local education.
People and Corporations will not move to a district that has no Physical Education, no programs for kids struggling to read, Art, Music, Band and possibly an affected Kindergarten. Class sizes of 30 kids to one teacher!!!
Our property taxes in AZ are very, very low comparred to the rest of the Nation... as is our education ranking. We cant afford to take more classes/"specials" away!
Voting 'YES' simply maintains the school programs as they are. The funding is for ART -- PE -- BAND -- READING PROGRAMS!
Voting 'NO' Not only will affect our home values and will hurt the area financially in many ways, it SPECIFICALLY takes away all of those programs for the kids.
---> Art, Physical Education, Music and Band and programs and classes for children who are strugling to learn to read!
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HawgRider
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Maybe everyone should vote NO and wait until the state does all it's budget cuts. They say the will be cutting big money from education on the state level. Go figure. Maybe we can flow some more money in another 3 months for what the district is going to be in need of then.
And heres a fun filled statement. Besides that they want to give us a 1 % sales tax increase. Take the sales tax to 9.3%.
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clarz007
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duece wrote: The U.S. Department of Education announced the finalists in the first round of Race to the Top. AZ didn't make the cut.
That's what happens when the grant writers are recipients of Arizona's outstanding education system. They probably didn't pass the "writing" portion of the AIMS test either. Maybe they will get it right in the second round of Race to the Top by modeling after states who make public education a priority.
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Rasoteacher2
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It would seem tomorrow's election will put an end to the override issue, one way or another. Although I have not agreed with some of the perspectives expressed in this forum, I wish to thank you all for an exchange of ideas that was both civil and enlightening. In the end, the democratic process itself is more important than the outcome.
If our mutual, and sometimes opposing efforts, happen to result in a larger voter turn out, and a closer examination of education funding, than I feel that this has been time well spent. It is my hope that respect, trust and cooperation will be strengthened by this process.
It remains my great honor and pleasure to serve as an educator in our community.
Take Care,
- Raso
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rvukanovich
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Dysart Unified School District
Voters are being asked to approve a 15 percent budget override, a continuation of two current overrides. The override is expected to provide an estimated $17.9 million next school year to continue funding student programs and help maintain class-size ratios and competitive salaries.
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duece
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The U.S. Department of Education announced the finalists in the first round of Race to the Top. AZ didn't make the cut.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 10:14 pm |
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Sioux
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That is why I posted this he is a joke, but he also has stated that he is against more cuts in education for the fear of mass layoffs in education
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 07:50 pm |
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Fenderfan
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Yeah, 2007 is the most recent available, probably across the board. It usually takes quite some time to compile since they are doing a national reading.
Last edited on Fri Feb 26th, 2010 07:53 pm by Fenderfan
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 07:00 pm |
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Trophywife
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Fenderfan wrote: Sioux wrote: Here is what Tom Horn is stating
http://www.ade.az.gov/constituentservices/newsletter/February10/Page1.asp Here is what the "National Assessment of Education Performance" Says.
Table 260. Proficiency Levels on Selected National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) Tests for Students in Public Schools by State: 2007
Check out their website: http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2010/tables/10s0260.pdf
Fourth Grade:
At or above Basic level of understanding; Math: 74% Prof or higher 31% " Basic level Reading: 56% Proficient or higher 34% (%)
Eight grade:
At or above Basic level of understanding: Math: 66% Proficient or higher 26% (?)
" Basic level Reading: 65% Proficient or higher 34%
As you can see, it depends on what stats you look at. In reading and math, we have 2/3rds of our students moving on to the next grade level with only a "basic" understanding of math and reading in the 4th and 8th grade levels.
Now the descriptions they use to explain the results are favored to the side of achieving the required status for the grade level. However, based on what? We have systematically lowered our educational standards over the years that now put us at 13th in the world as far as quality of education when we used to by number 1.
They use proficient as "Mastery of the knowledge and skills that are fundamental for proficient work at a given grade level." This is not exceeding or excelling. We use a state test to meet the states standards which is not what others use. Testing is a gimmick.
Don't take this wrong, but I don't like it when reports and stats are thrown around by politicians without supporting references to show their numbers. Mr. Horn doesn't give anything other than his word. If you have SAT scores to support his claims, then why is there a discrepancy between all these reports?
I know, their numbers don't add up on all areas. They probably have something they left out that would explain this. But it is a government website, just like one that Mr. Horn used.
2007????
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 06:23 pm |
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Fenderfan
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Sioux wrote: Here is what Tom Horn is stating
http://www.ade.az.gov/constituentservices/newsletter/February10/Page1.asp Here is what the "National Assessment of Education Performance" Says.
Table 260. Proficiency Levels on Selected National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) Tests for Students in Public Schools by State: 2007
Check out their website: http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2010/tables/10s0260.pdf
Fourth Grade:
At or above Basic level of understanding; Math: 74% Prof or higher 31% " Basic level Reading: 56% Proficient or higher 34% (%)
Eight grade:
At or above Basic level of understanding: Math: 66% Proficient or higher 26% (?)
" Basic level Reading: 65% Proficient or higher 34%
As you can see, it depends on what stats you look at. In reading and math, we have 2/3rds of our students moving on to the next grade level with only a "basic" understanding of math and reading in the 4th and 8th grade levels.
Now the descriptions they use to explain the results are favored to the side of achieving the required status for the grade level. However, based on what? We have systematically lowered our educational standards over the years that now put us at 13th in the world as far as quality of education when we used to by number 1.
They use proficient as "Mastery of the knowledge and skills that are fundamental for proficient work at a given grade level." This is not exceeding or excelling. We use a state test to meet the states standards which is not what others use. Testing is a gimmick.
Don't take this wrong, but I don't like it when reports and stats are thrown around by politicians without supporting references to show their numbers. Mr. Horn doesn't give anything other than his word. If you have SAT scores to support his claims, then why is there a discrepancy between all these reports?
I know, their numbers don't add up on all areas. They probably have something they left out that would explain this. But it is a government website, just like one that Mr. Horn used.
Last edited on Fri Feb 26th, 2010 06:52 pm by Fenderfan
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 04:54 pm |
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79th Post |
| Posted: Wed Feb 24th, 2010 04:00 pm |
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Fenderfan
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Personally I don't see this issue as a blame game on who votes no and who votes yes. I have learned a lot just from listening (by reading responses) to what is being said on both sides.
The way I have come to understand this mess, the state provides money for buildings and the local district has to plan and budget for the ongoing maintenance, operational costs and salaries associated with the facilities. Is this true?
If this is the case, then what I see as a problem is the lack of planning for, and/or lack of ongoing long term capital for these costs. They (the district) are buying, with the help of the state new "homes" if you will, without the income for sustaining them. Now they want to have ongoing support from the community for maintaining their new home they purchased and couldn't afford?
Why not "buy a home" within your long term sustainability plan that you can afford? Or is the state going to continue to fund the maintenance and ongoing costs for the school district facilities?
Are the property taxes being requested only for teacher salaries and programs? If so, I don't mind voting yes for the override. If not, then on principle, I have to vote no. Why not tell us prior to building large, multiple schools, and facilities, that there is going to be a long term commitment needed in the form of property taxes from us and ask at that time? As I see it, if this bond passes, we will have to go through this again in 5 years and we will all be doing this on our computers once again.
Either way, I believe the administration could have done a better job educating the public on ALL aspects of the bond and the school budget issues.
It’s not about the money for me. It’s being tired of paying for over spending, failure to plan for the future and then asking for a "bailout".
Additionally, one of the issues at the state level is consideration of transferring the entire education funding over to local municipalities. This opens up so many uncertainties; I think everyone should sit on it for a while and see what happens. Then we all should work together and try to solve this problem as a community.
As a small business owner, no matter how the vote goes, I want to provide as much support to local school programs in arts and physical education as possible. I will participate in ongoing fundraisers and contribute time and money to them. The whole budgetary process and how allocations of funds is decided needs to change.
I don't know Gail Pletnick and really don't want to bash her or her administration if they are given a lousy hand to work with. If this is the case, then let’s see about getting another hand dealt through a collaborative effort at the state level.
We all have a right to our opinion based on what we know at the time of making it. There are clearly some bright and eloquent communicators in here. I appreciate your points of view when they are presented in the form of "educating".
I am done with this topic in this medium, but welcome a personal face to face interaction with the obvious teachers and administrators here to address this and make it better.
Don't you love free speech! Both sides of this debate have brought a topic that frustrates many people, to the forefront in a way that assisted in getting some much needed information out in the open. This has assisted in pointing those that are interested in a direction they can take and hopefully make a difference.
Last edited on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 02:43 pm by Fenderfan
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| Posted: Wed Feb 24th, 2010 01:39 pm |
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tiredofbs
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Finally somebody has the perfect plan. The administrators and support staff are the ones that are taking all the money. They should start from the top. Good Job.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 24th, 2010 12:49 am |
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Rasoteacher2
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Most teacher salaries are not related to the override. Since the M & O override does pay for Special area classes, educators who offer instruction in art, music, library, and physical education are on the chopping block. In some cases, so are teachers that owe their positions to increased class sizes If the override is passed, these classes will not be curtailed or eliminated and all day kindergarten will continue.; that is one way you will know the money is being spent as promised. Another method is to access district records and analyze the spending voucher items passed by the governing board. All of these documents are available from the district or on the internet. You may want to consider going to the district office in person to ask questions as well. The ultimate check and balances, regarding public funds, is the state Department of Education that audits all districts annually and reports an discrepancies to the public, state authorities and the governing board.
Current classroom counts are based on learners enrolled in their neighborhood school as defined by district boundaries. Some of these numbers have risen due to population disbursement and other increases are related to staffing numbers. An unfavorable result for Dysart in this election will mean that class sizes could increase by five students or more. The problem will most likely be compounded by additional cuts in funding by the state.
What many opponents to the override often over look is the fact that Dysart absorbed $18 million dollars in funding cuts last year. Conservative estimates suggest the state may cut another $15 million in the next two years. Some people look at the size of the district's proposed budget and ask "Why can't they operate on less money?" The answer is there are 20 elementary schools, 4 high schools, 1,400 teachers and nearly 20,000 students in this district. Quality education for so large a number does not come cheap.
I do not see teacher pay as major issue in the election as some of my colleagues are just praying that they will have a job when this is over. I am not in the habit of complaining about compensation as I never entered this filed to become rich; it is about being of service to others and giving back something positive to my country. When bloggers suggest cutting educator pay to save money they do not understand that our state ranks very low in teacher pay already. Even if Career Ladder funds were automatically added into the pay scale, Arizona would still be one of the lowest paying states. The article posted on this site suggests that teachers are making an additional $3,500 a year as a perk: that is nonsense. Test results and exemplary performance drive that program and most educators do not see the full amount mentioned due to years of experience and other factors.
The court's finding will be appealed and is not very surprising, Our state legislator, and judicial system have passed an array of measures designed to punish educators for their recent protests against budget cuts. Some of these laws intentionally favor charter schools as many of our elected officials have financial interests in such institutions.
It is my hope that some of the facts contained in this message will prove helpful to you.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 02:10 pm |
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83rd Post |
Fenderfan
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Rasoteacher2 wrote: Thank you for your comments Fenderfan. The Dysrart district is legally required to spend the override funds as stipulated in the literature given to voters prior to the election. Should you wish to confirm the intentions of the district, you may seek a detailed break down of the override funds from the district office and confirm the utilization of past override unds via documents available form the Maricopa County Elections Commission - Records Department.
It appears there is some misunderstanding, maybe on my part, but the pamphlet that was mailed to my house says the override is related to "Maintenance and Operating expenses". Where do teacher salaries come into this?
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 02:24 am |
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84th Post |
poparent
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Rasoteacher2 wrote: Thank you for your comments Fenderfan. The Dysrart district is legally required to spend the override funds as stipulated in the literature given to voters prior to the election. Should you wish to confirm the intentions of the district, you may seek a detailed break down of the override funds from the district office and confirm the utilization of past override unds via documents available form the Maricopa County Elections Commission - Records Department.
The question is who is there that makes sure that the use the money as they supposed to? Please answer that. I have seen class sizes in a second grade class be over 25 students, and that is with the override in effect that stated that the money was there to keep the class size down low, I seen the district use medicare money that was allocated to a special needs student to cover other sections of the budget, I seen the district apply for grant money to start a program just not to continue it when the grant goes dry. Show show me where and who keeps track of them using the override money and I will vote yes for it.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 01:51 am |
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85th Post |
Rasoteacher2
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Thank you for your comments Fenderfan. The Dysart district is legally required to spend the override funds as stipulated in the literature given to voters prior to the election. Should you wish to confirm the intentions of the district, you may seek a detailed break down of the override funds from the district office and confirm the utilization of past override funds via documents available form the Maricopa County Elections Commission - Records Department. Last edited on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 12:06 am by Rasoteacher2
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| Posted: Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 01:43 am |
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86th Post |
Rasoteacher2
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It seems select bloggers on this forum express ideas about reducing compensation for teachers, and allowing an override to fail that supports student programs and services, and then allow others to defend their position.
With all do respect however, it is not a worthy defense in the least. The nature of the original posting and the response, is yet another sign of how far some are willing to go to unjustly prevent the continuation of the current tax rate that supports public education.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22nd, 2010 03:15 pm |
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Fenderfan
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Personally, I would like to support the override for the schools. I agree the teachers, most of them, deserve more pay and support. However, I am not supportive of the Dysart leadership and don't trust them. What makes us believe the support is going to the class when for years it hasn't gone there?
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| Posted: Sun Feb 21st, 2010 07:16 pm |
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88th Post |
cindisue_g
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Rasoteacher2 wrote:
So all these facts do raise a rather interesting question. Just how many more sacrifices would you like to see Dysart teachers make so that you can be free of this override tax?
This is a question you should ask the administration, not the voters.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 21st, 2010 06:56 pm |
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Rasoteacher2
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Indeed, some perspective regarding teacher salaries is needed but the cultivation of an informed view does require all the facts. Educators in the state of Arizona are paid far below the national average and recent economic woes have reduced that level of compensation even further. Prop 301 funds, which the state designated as an available portion of salaries based on test scores, have been greatly diminished due to falling sales tax revenues.
Additionally, to curb costs Career Ladder addendums will be phased out completely over the next few years. Dysart chose this option months ago and prior to any decision made by the courts. It may be worth noting that both Prop 301 and Career Ladder funding were designed to address the very poor base pay offered to educators in Arizona. Retention of exceptional teachers does require some financial investment. Dedication to the student should always be a given but the bills have to be paid too.
To put it in dollars and sense, many master level teachers in Dysart lost between $2000 and $3000 in pay this year already due to the reductions mentioned above. Pending state budget cuts will mean a salary loss next year of another 2% to 6%. In total, experienced educators will most likely lose almost $500 of gross income per month in the next few academic years.
If the override fails, over 100 teaching positions will be eliminated and class sizes will rise as some core educators will be terminated as well; thus leaving their peers to present content and material for which they may not have the certifications or training for. Ultimately, the student pays the biggest price in this scenario.
So all these facts do raise a rather interesting question. Just how many more sacrifices would you like to see Dysart teachers make so that you can be free of this override tax?
Last edited on Sun Feb 21st, 2010 07:00 pm by Rasoteacher2
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| Posted: Sun Feb 21st, 2010 03:15 pm |
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90th Post |
cindisue_g
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Ruling could cut pay for AZ Career Ladder teachers
Associated Press - February 20, 2010 5:24 PM ET
PHOENIX (AP) - An Arizona program that rewards teachers for student performance is in jeopardy after a judge's ruling and a state budget crisis that prevents the program's expansion.
Maricopa County Superior Court Judge Dean Fink has declared the Career Ladder program unconstitutional because it's not open to all districts. He says it's up to the Legislature to fix the problem. Fink ruled in a lawsuit against the state by Gilbert Public Schools, which doesn't have Career Ladder but wants it. But he issued a stay in his ruling, keeping the program until lawmakers or a higher court act on the matter.
About 17,000 Arizona teachers in 28 districts take home extra pay because their districts participate. Some districts estimate teachers take home up to $3,500 in performance pay each year.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 21st, 2010 05:33 am |
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91st Post |
poparent
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Art Vandelay wrote: poparent wrote: Art Vandelay wrote: poparent wrote: Art Vandelay wrote: duece wrote: How about eliminating the bonuses for Career Ladder? When are the teachers going to give up something? Do they really have the students interest at heart or is it . . .
Teachers have given up something already. There is virtually no 301 money for 2010-2011. In case you did not know 301 was voted on by the people of Arizona. This means that the majority of teachers will have taken a pay cut of around 4000.00. Career Ladder is not a bonus. Teachers choose to participate in it or not and data will show that students who are taught by a career ladder teacher do better on state tests. Teachers are asked to do more with less, similar to the idea of making bricks without straw.
Career ladder is a farce, I have been told that some teachers rig their scores (not AIMS but the test that they give them themselves) to get their money and if you did not get the principal pissed at you you can get a good rating by them too. With luck the state will get rid of that too. You obviously know nothing about the Career Ladder program. Hearsay is just that
What hearsay, I know by the facts that teachers tend to hold kids from specials so they can retest them to meet there criteria of improving scores, I know by fact that a teacher worked hard to meet his goals just to be told he couldn't get career ladder because one bad comment from a principal who did not like him, I do not throw out crap like some people do.
One part of the Career Ladder program allows teachers to retest students to master material, nothing wrong with that is there? Keeping students from other activities/ specials is something I cannot speak to. If a Career Ladder teacher gets a bad evaluation they have some recourse that non Career Ladder teachers don't have. One bad comment will not necessarily prohibit achieving Career Ladder. There are 3 parts to a teacher from achieving Career Ladder. Part one is accomplishing 3 teacher made goals. Part 2 is a satisfactory evaluation, Part 3 is completing additional responsibilities that contribute to student achievement or the district. Examples can be tutoring after school, serving on committees etc. Therefore I do question the information you have posted.
Let make this clear the teacher gives their students a test in the beginning of the school, this test that they administer is one that they make up on something that they will learn but haven't yet. Later they will give the same test if a group of students did not past the test they retest them with the same test until they pass. The coach this kids that fail the first time to get better score on there test. Yes they have three tiers to make sure that the teacher earns that money, they have to meet their goal that they set, easy to fix, they have to do some free work for the school, easy as pie, as well has not to get any "N's" in their evaluation, one "N" they fail to meet the standard for career ladder, which I know for a fact since a excellent teacher had two of the three tiers meet, it was one "N" on their evaluation that prevent them to receive career ladder, anyway I think the state will eliminate it from the state budget soon
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20th, 2010 08:13 pm |
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92nd Post |
Art Vandelay
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poparent wrote: Art Vandelay wrote: poparent wrote: Art Vandelay wrote: duece wrote: How about eliminating the bonuses for Career Ladder? When are the teachers going to give up something? Do they really have the students interest at heart or is it . . .
Teachers have given up something already. There is virtually no 301 money for 2010-2011. In case you did not know 301 was voted on by the people of Arizona. This means that the majority of teachers will have taken a pay cut of around 4000.00. Career Ladder is not a bonus. Teachers choose to participate in it or not and data will show that students who are taught by a career ladder teacher do better on state tests. Teachers are asked to do more with less, similar to the idea of making bricks without straw.
Career ladder is a farce, I have been told that some teachers rig their scores (not AIMS but the test that they give them themselves) to get their money and if you did not get the principal pissed at you you can get a good rating by them too. With luck the state will get rid of that too. You obviously know nothing about the Career Ladder program. Hearsay is just that
What hearsay, I know by the facts that teachers tend to hold kids from specials so they can retest them to meet there criteria of improving scores, I know by fact that a teacher worked hard to meet his goals just to be told he couldn't get career ladder because one bad comment from a principal who did not like him, I do not throw out crap like some people do.
One part of the Career Ladder program allows teachers to retest students to master material, nothing wrong with that is there? Keeping students from other activities/ specials is something I cannot speak to. If a Career Ladder teacher gets a bad evaluation they have some recourse that non Career Ladder teachers don't have. One bad comment will not necessarily prohibit achieving Career Ladder. There are 3 parts to a teacher from achieving Career Ladder. Part one is accomplishing 3 teacher made goals. Part 2 is a satisfactory evaluation, Part 3 is completing additional responsibilities that contribute to student achievement or the district. Examples can be tutoring after school, serving on committees etc. Therefore I do question the information you have posted.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20th, 2010 07:53 pm |
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93rd Post |
poparent
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Art Vandelay wrote: poparent wrote: Art Vandelay wrote: duece wrote: How about eliminating the bonuses for Career Ladder? When are the teachers going to give up something? Do they really have the students interest at heart or is it . . .
Teachers have given up something already. There is virtually no 301 money for 2010-2011. In case you did not know 301 was voted on by the people of Arizona. This means that the majority of teachers will have taken a pay cut of around 4000.00. Career Ladder is not a bonus. Teachers choose to participate in it or not and data will show that students who are taught by a career ladder teacher do better on state tests. Teachers are asked to do more with less, similar to the idea of making bricks without straw.
Career ladder is a farce, I have been told that some teachers rig their scores (not AIMS but the test that they give them themselves) to get their money and if you did not get the principal pissed at you you can get a good rating by them too. With luck the state will get rid of that too. You obviously know nothing about the Career Ladder program. Hearsay is just that
What hearsay, I know by the facts that teachers tend to hold kids from specials so they can retest them to meet there criteria of improving scores, I know by fact that a teacher worked hard to meet his goals just to be told he couldn't get career ladder because one bad comment from a principal who did not like him, I do not throw out crap like some people do.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20th, 2010 03:50 am |
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94th Post |
Art Vandelay
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poparent wrote: Art Vandelay wrote: duece wrote: How about eliminating the bonuses for Career Ladder? When are the teachers going to give up something? Do they really have the students interest at heart or is it . . .
Teachers have given up something already. There is virtually no 301 money for 2010-2011. In case you did not know 301 was voted on by the people of Arizona. This means that the majority of teachers will have taken a pay cut of around 4000.00. Career Ladder is not a bonus. Teachers choose to participate in it or not and data will show that students who are taught by a career ladder teacher do better on state tests. Teachers are asked to do more with less, similar to the idea of making bricks without straw.
Career ladder is a farce, I have been told that some teachers rig their scores (not AIMS but the test that they give them themselves) to get their money and if you did not get the principal pissed at you you can get a good rating by them too. With luck the state will get rid of that too. You obviously know nothing about the Career Ladder program. Hearsay is just that
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20th, 2010 03:22 am |
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95th Post |
poparent
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Art Vandelay wrote: duece wrote: How about eliminating the bonuses for Career Ladder? When are the teachers going to give up something? Do they really have the students interest at heart or is it . . .
Teachers have given up something already. There is virtually no 301 money for 2010-2011. In case you did not know 301 was voted on by the people of Arizona. This means that the majority of teachers will have taken a pay cut of around 4000.00. Career Ladder is not a bonus. Teachers choose to participate in it or not and data will show that students who are taught by a career ladder teacher do better on state tests. Teachers are asked to do more with less, similar to the idea of making bricks without straw.
Career ladder is a farce, I have been told that some teachers rig their scores (not AIMS but the test that they give them themselves) to get their money and if you did not get the principal pissed at you you can get a good rating by them too. With luck the state will get rid of that too.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20th, 2010 03:15 am |
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96th Post |
Biggerthanabreadbox
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TEACHERS GET PAID TOO MUCH
I am fed up with teachers and their hefty salary guides. What we need here is a little perspective. If I had my way, I'd pay these teachers myself.... I'd pay them babysitting wages. That's right... instead of paying these outrageous taxes, I'd give them $3.00 an hour out of my own pocket. And I'm only going to pay them for five hours, not coffee breaks. That would be $15.00 a day - each parent should pay $15.00 a day for these teachers to babysit their child. Even if they have more than one child, it's still a lot cheaper than private day care.
Now, how many children do they teach a day - maybe twenty? That's $15.00 x 20 = $300 a day. But, remember they only work 180 days a year!! I'm not going to pay them for all those vacations. $300 x 180 = $54,000. (Just a minute, I think my calculator needs batteries.)
I know now you teachers will say what about those who have ten years' experience and a Master's degree? Well, maybe (to be fair) they could get the minimum wage, and instead of just babysitting, they could read the kids a story. We can round that off to about $5.00 an hour, times five hours, times 20 children. That's $500 a day times 180 days. That's $90,000....HUH???? Wait a minute, let's get a little perspective here. Babysitting wages are too good for these teachers. Did anyone see a salary guide around here??
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20th, 2010 02:45 am |
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97th Post |
Art Vandelay
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duece wrote: How about eliminating the bonuses for Career Ladder? When are the teachers going to give up something? Do they really have the students interest at heart or is it . . .
Teachers have given up something already. There is virtually no 301 money for 2010-2011. In case you did not know 301 was voted on by the people of Arizona. This means that the majority of teachers will have taken a pay cut of around 4000.00. Career Ladder is not a bonus. Teachers choose to participate in it or not and data will show that students who are taught by a career ladder teacher do better on state tests. Teachers are asked to do more with less, similar to the idea of making bricks without straw.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20th, 2010 12:36 am |
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duece
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Trophywife wrote: Craig wrote: lotfotl wrote: mailing our two no votes tomorrow I just heard a good plan on the news. 8 states are only going to make kids go through the 10th grade, then pay for community college tuition. Im thinking that would be cheaper then high school.. We should do that, it would save money...
I heard something like that, but it was that they only go to the 11th grade because they mostly party and fool around in the 12th grade.
Who to do you thinks pays for most of that? Look at your tax bill. Can you spell T A X P A Y E R S?
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20th, 2010 12:32 am |
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99th Post |
Trophywife
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Craig wrote: lotfotl wrote: mailing our two no votes tomorrow I just heard a good plan on the news. 8 states are only going to make kids go through the 10th grade, then pay for community college tuition. Im thinking that would be cheaper then high school.. We should do that, it would save money...
I heard something like that, but it was that they only go to the 11th grade because they mostly party and fool around in the 12th grade.
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duece
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How about eliminating the bonuses for Career Ladder? When are the teachers going to give up something? Do they really have the students interest at heart or is it . . . Last edited on Sat Feb 20th, 2010 12:27 am by duece
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